Is AR Comp the best option for velocity and accuracy with 123 ge SST today?

[Papa Smurff]

Been looking at powders for 123 gr SST and brass that are on the way. H4895 and H4350 have meet all my needs for rifle powder in the past so I in unknown lands with thr grindle. Reading all the posts in forums it's being indicated that AR Comp is the most temp stable with best velociy and accuracy. 8208 hasn't seen here for quite a while so that means searching for the next best thing. I do see the ball powders CFE223, Leverevolution, 2520, and BallC2 on ocassion but my experience with them in the greatly varrying Kansas temps hasn'r been wonderful. I'm on the waiting list at Powder Valley for 8208, but they have AR comp in stock and it"s an hour round trip for me so that's not a big deal.

I'm kina a 1 bullet and load for everything from pests to deer shooter
and shoot atleast once a month at varying distances all year long to stay proficent. What are the opinons of the experienced shooters?

[Harpoon1]

IMO! needing temperature stable powders for hunting ammo is way overblown. Which I assume is what you’re making with the 123 SST. Nothing wrong with using single based extruded powders but, for hunting ammo, I find it overkill and unnecessary. You need to get out past 600 yds or so before large extreme spreads (temperature sensitivity) in velocity start to have any effect on group size. FWIW: all of the factory Grendel ammo I’ve ever pulled apart, including Hornady’s 123 SST’s, has been loaded with a ball powder! Just saying………..

Of the 4 ball powders you listed, I really like Lever with 120-130 weight class projectiles. With A2520 next, followed by CFE 223. Have no experience with BL-C2.

[603Country]

I happened to have a good quantity of H335, so that’s what I use. And, it’s available.

[grayfox]

Ar Comp works well for the 120 class bullets. It does have some temperature stability so if I were you, I'd pick up some of it. get 3# or so of the same lot# (or more if you want- lol!). The 123 sst, 123 eldm, and nosler 120 all fall into very similar load weights and MVs. Lot to lot you will see some load changes necessary to get your node dialed back in, so get multi-pounds of the same lot#.

Since Op say he's a 1-bullet shooter, this is a reasonable combo for him.

I can't say that temperature stability is a big or not-so-big deal, from my shooting. I don't plan to be shooting below about 30 degF, but when I did some range time and the temps were >90 degF this summer, I was getting some faster MVs... so I guess for me, it can happen for sure, even with vargets and h4350's... noticeable but not deal breakers, but the ball powders, a bigger spread.

If you want to try some CFE, which is also a good powder for the 120 class, I'd make sure you're not going out with it in 90 DegF or greater. Below that down to about 30, out to 200 yds you might not see much delta. But I'm still in process of verifying how true/false that is for myself. I don't plan on using the grendel past about 200 anyway.

[lazyengineer]

Ramshot TAC, is the powder you seek

[SDguy]

What kind of temperature extremes do you anticipate to encounter with your load? If you are really concerned you may wish to work up similar loads for different temperature ranges.

[LRRPF52]

When 6.5 Grendel was introduced, Bill Alexander did a lot of load development work for 123gr with:

AA2520
TAC
BL-C(2)
H335
Win 748
Benchmark
N140
N540

Hornady published data for 120-123gr with CFE-223 a few years later (along with the others), which is great for velocity but does exhibit temp variations. CFE-223 is my go-to powder and I go through Utah high altitude summer heat in the triple digits, to Utah high altitude winter in the single digits, but I’m primarily shooting steel plates out to 1000yds.

Hodgdon’s published data for:

H335
8208XBR
Benchmark
H322
IMR4198
H4198

Western Powders published data for:

AA LT-32
AA 2200
Rimshot X-Terminator
AA 2230
Rimshot TAC
AA 2520

Vihtavuori has 123gr Scenar data for:

N135
N530
N133

This can all be found in the 6.5 Grendel Handbooks:



There’s a lot of data in there for AR Comp as well.

Under a 123gr Hornady SST, using CCI 41 and CC 450s with Hornady or Lapua brass, approach 27.7 - 28.0gr as your top end carefully.

[richj]

BLC2 was the only powder I ever save temp sensitivity but it was in a 308. diff in temp was 65 overcast to 85 blazing sun

[Scrape hunter]

8208 xbr works well for my gun in that weight class of bullet with cci 450 primers ..

[Bobke]

As is obvious from feedback here on temp stability and its causal factors, there are a variety of choices. I’ve used most all, especially TAC, 8208 and CFE, and have settled on AR Comp for my particular circumstances. Lower burn temp, consistent and predictable velocity variation, SD and accuracy across multiple Grendel platforms from 18-24”, though I favor 20” as best all around for my use. And while most don’t use them, 120 Scenar L’s work at 27.0gr and range from 2525-2550, depending on chamber variation, in both Hornady and Lapua brass. Harder to come by of late, and pricey, but has been working year round in TX Hill Country for last 3-4 year.

[kmon]

H4895 is another for temp stable and accuracy.

[trubulator]

I used H335 for a hunting load with SSTs. I got good velocity and good accuracy. Somewhat temp affected, but was OK. TAC I have used with match bullets (Barnes match burners) and gotten really great accuracy when I give up a little velocity.

Like OP, I value temp stability, so I tend to avoid CFE223, Lever, etc. If you can find AR Comp, it looks to fit the bill since 8208 is unobtanium.

[Okie_Poke]

I get slightly more velocity from CFE223 than I do from AR COMP with any Hornady 123 bullet. Both powders work just fine. I use CFE 223 mainly because it meters extremely well on a progressive press and I use the same powder for my 75 grain 223 loads. It keeps things simple. I can't say one powder is noticeable more or less accurate than the other in the limited comparison testing I've done. Temp stability is not something I'm overly concerned about, however.

[Mark611]

I have tried a lot of powders for my 18 and 24'' tubes, mainly running the 120 and 123gn ELDM's and 120gn SMK's, I do not hunt just paper punch, that said, my loads are run out of AR plat forms, it took me awhile to get a good load developed that was accurate for my rifles, for whatever reason my barrels don't seem to like the Hornady pills, but I have not tried the Hornady ELDM's with AR Comp, yet, I do have some loaded up for my next range trip to see if they will group? the best groups I have gotten are about 2 to 3'' at 200m, with the Hornady 120 and 123gn ELDM's, I'm not happy with that! on the other hand, the 120gn SMK's out of my 24'' 1&8 with new unfired brass Hornady or Starline running 27.1gns of AR Comp last trip out same distance I shot a 3/4'' group, from the 10 test rounds I loaded for that day, aving 2545fps with a SD of 7fps my 18'' 1&8 shot a 1.5'' group with the same load same SD, @2495fps, group size was bigger due to the Reticle in my scope, it covers up the 1.5'' bullseye I use at 200m, I will also note that these are not target rifles! my 18'' is a Heavy barrel BCA right side charger upper, my 24'' is a Sanders HB RSC, AR Comp has been the best and most stable powder I have used so far from my rifles, I have not tried CFE223 or lever, I also have no pressure signs with the comp load, powders I have also tried are A2520 A2460 A2495 Shooters World Match rifle H322 H4895 Tac and probably a few others I have forgot about, and none of these powders come close in performance velocity or accuracy wise to AR Comp from my rifles and most of the other powders had ejector marks on the brass and they barely broke 2400fps and the powders that did break the 2450 mark all had ejector marks, this is just my experience with the 6.5GRR from an AR plat form YMMV.

[stonehog]

I've had good luck with Shooters World Match Rifle and LeverEvolution with good velocity and no pressure signs. Also good case fill with both. A2520 also good, but slightly lower velocity. Tac and H335 in a similar boat.

[stonehog]

My big gripe about AR-Comp as a handloader is price - it was not available for quite a while, and now comes in at $60/lb. Not worth it for me. It seems like Alliant is gouging with a lot of their powders. Most of their stuff has gone missing for the better part of a year. Everyone has their favorite brands, I guess I'm more of an Accurate, Vihtavuori, Ramshot guy these days...

[Mark611]

Well Boy's the days of old are gone, I'm like the rest of you! if you want it your gonna pay the price in today's world! AR Comp may be too expensive? all of the good powders are expensive! I have a shop that gets AR Comp 8lb Kegs $377 out the door the last time I purchased it less than a year ago, I picked up 24LBS while I could, that amount will last me for years, that powder is specific only for my 6.5GRR, I'm not saying the other powders I have tried don't work, they just don't perform like comp from my rifles, My favorite powders are the H powders, go look at those prices! 10yrs ago H4895 and VARGET out the door for $150 bucks for a 8LB keg in today's world $400 to 450 if you can find it, I have also had to go to alternative powders that are reasonably priced, like the Accurate powders and that will probably change now that HODGON has bought out the AA line of powders, the 6.5GRR is a niche caliber and expensive when it comes to factory ammo, reloading makes all the difference to keep cost down and the enjoyment of reloading for all that you reload for, the opportunity to tailor your ammo to your rifle for best performance for your intended use, unfortunately we live in a world created by people who want to end all of this for all of us! just my thoughts!