I love my grendel, however I'm not in love with it at the moment. My gun weighs 8.16 lbs bare (no mag-14.95oz, no scope-28.1oz, no can-17.7oz). The barrel isn't terribly heavy at 26.3 oz. Once I add the can, scope, and full 17rd mag I'm at 11.96lbs. The load I have for it shoots 3/4 moa and will stay above expansion levels out to 500 yrds making it an easy shooting, high capacity (important b/c I'm on the border and want bullets for more than hunting if needed) viable gun for the javelina and small white tail I have this gun for.
I can't figure out anything the grendel does better than I can do with either of those 2 rifles. Arguably they are better due to WAY more ammo availability and bullet options for loading, plus the significantly lower weight (all accessories being equal) with similar effective range.
So why not dump the grendel and switch it up? It will be even worse when they release it in 6.5 creedmoor
JMHO - others have run more than I have, but this is me:
-Dump the can - it adds bulk for and mass for benefits that aren't actually worth it. Fighting words: but I think those things are worth way less than people act. There's a reason no military bothers with issuing cans.
-Run lighter glass. I don't know what you are running, but 16X power is a bulky mess that you don't actually need to hit stuff with. Look hard at weights of glass. Run a light mount as well.
-Run a slimmer barrel. For whatever reason, it's hard to find someone making a non-heavy Grendel barrel. Faxon makes a decent dimensioned 16". I actually run a 14.5" I had cut to slim BBL profile, and love it.
-Run slimmer and lighter foregrip. Most people run grips longer than they place their hands in reality - run one that exposes your gas block, and it'll be lighter, and you can service your gas block.
-FWIW I run mine field unit on a magnesium lower.
I love my grendel, however I'm not in love with it at the moment. My gun weighs 8.16 lbs bare (no mag-14.95oz, no scope-28.1oz, no can-17.7oz). The barrel isn't terribly heavy at 26.3 oz.
I'd like to know more about the build. If you really have a 26 oz barrel and your finished weight is over 8 pounds, lets figure out where all that weight is.
Paul Peloquin
Did government credibility die of Covid or with Covid?
If all other things are equal, I dont see how an AR15 would be heavier than an AR10? A pound isnt really that much, it sounds like you just have slightly heavier components.
My guess is you just really want that Ruger. I find the easiest way to get rid of temptation is to give in.
I love my grendel, however I'm not in love with it at the moment. My gun weighs 8.16 lbs bare (no mag-14.95oz, no scope-28.1oz, no can-17.7oz). The barrel isn't terribly heavy at 26.3 oz. Once I add the can, scope, and full 17rd mag I'm at 11.96lbs. The load I have for it shoots 3/4 moa and will stay above expansion levels out to 500 yrds making it an easy shooting, high capacity (important b/c I'm on the border and want bullets for more than hunting if needed) viable gun for the javelina and small white tail I have this gun for.
I can't figure out anything the grendel does better than I can do with either of those 2 rifles. Arguably they are better due to WAY more ammo availability and bullet options for loading, plus the significantly lower weight (all accessories being equal) with similar effective range.
So why not dump the grendel and switch it up? It will be even worse when they release it in 6.5 creedmoor
I imagine once you put a gigantic scope and a suppressor on the two Rugers, plus a twenty round magazine of 7.62, that the weights will be more than what you have already.
Shooting a gas operated .308 is not a bundle of joy. I find them to be bulky, clumsy, and somewhat abusive from recoil and blast.
I doubt there is any difference in the amount of factory loads for either but I contend that if you are talking anarchy that it will be easier to find .308 than Grendel.
I wouldn't buy a Ruger though. I think that would be a mistake you will live to regret.
LR1955 Wrote:I imagine once you put a gigantic scope and a suppressor on the two Rugers, plus a twenty round magazine of 7.62, that the weights will be more than what you have already.
LR-55
That's why I broke down the components on my current gun to see my starting weight on my current gun without mag, scope, or can. If I put those same scope and can on the Ruger, that I am using on the Grendel, the Ruger would be lighter. I was just trying to figure out where the downside was.
With regards to the bulky part that's always been my aversion to the ar10, however they are saying they have the receivers slimmed down to ar15 size..
With regards to finding factory ammo, where I am now, I can maybe find one or two flavors of grendel if I'm lucky. Definitely way more options in 308 available if I didn't load it.
imaguy3 Wrote:With regards to finding factory ammo, where I am now, I can maybe find one or two flavors of grendel if I'm lucky. Definitely way more options in 308 available if I didn't load it.
If you want one of these Rugers, you should buy one. For sure. I totally agree with you on the availability point of .308. I should probably have a .308 just on that basis alone.
Still, I'd like to know the components that resulted in an 8-pound build. A person can build a 6 pound Grendel without resorting to titanium or magnesium.
Paul Peloquin
Did government credibility die of Covid or with Covid?
biodsl Wrote:If you want one of these Rugers, you should buy one. For sure. I totally agree with you on the availability point of .308. I should probably have a .308 just on that basis alone.
Still, I'd like to know the components that resulted in an 8-pound build. A person can build a 6 pound Grendel without resorting to titanium or magnesium.
Like I said in my OP... the 8lbs is EXCLUDING all accessories like the scope, suppresor, and magazine.
I used to have a 16" POF P308. I think it was somewhere in the 8-9 lb range out of the box. It beat the living crap out of me. It was an MOA rifle, but it frankly wasn't very fun to shoot.
lazyengineer Wrote:JMHO - others have run more than I have, but this is me:
-Dump the can - it adds bulk for and mass for benefits that aren't actually worth it. Fighting words: but I think those things are worth way less than people act. There's a reason no military bothers with issuing cans.
-.
Sure... For me it has lots of value hunting. I hunt with a group. Sometimes we get the opportunity for multiple harvests at once at decent range 300-700. With the can on, the animals in the canyon/draw don't spook on the shot so it allows follow-ups if needed, or a chance for another hunter to also harvest if the first shot was good.
Additionally it lets us have the benefit of muzzle breaks (flat muzzle and watching impact through scope) without the penalty of muzzle break and no ear pro.
To each their own, but having had that play out where I shot a buck, the others didn't spook, and a partner harvesting... I'm never going without.
First some questions. Is the weight you list for the scope including just the scope? Or does the weight inclide the mount?
Looking at the picture you provided there are several places you can cut weight if you so desire.
Take off the suppressor wrap. It may not weigh much but for hunting purposes is it really needed?
Drop the handguard length to 10" and you probably still can have the gas block covered, go shorter if it doesn't matter.
If the bipod is necessary for hunting keep it, otherwise lose it.
As was already mentioned, switching scopes could save weight, that one appears to be a tank with an added bubble level at the front, and throw arm for magnification changes.
The scope mount also appears to be a tank. Weigh it and compare to whats out there.
You may be able to save some ounces changing out the stock.
The sling can be swapped too. Four feet of one inch wide bulk nylon strap available at any hardware store with the matching loops weighs almost nothing. Granted, you don't have all the bells and whistles of the sling you have on there, but its a couple ounces instead of many ounces.
Don't take this as a knock against what you have. Its your rifle and you built it the way you want it. Changing out parts is cheaper than an entirely new rifle, and once your done making changes you have parts on hand that can spawn themseilves into a whole new project
I love my grendel, however I'm not in love with it at the moment. My gun weighs 8.16 lbs bare (no mag-14.95oz, no scope-28.1oz, no can-17.7oz). The barrel isn't terribly heavy at 26.3 oz. Once I add the can, scope, and full 17rd mag I'm at 11.96lbs. The load I have for it shoots 3/4 moa and will stay above expansion levels out to 500 yrds making it an easy shooting, high capacity (important b/c I'm on the border and want bullets for more than hunting if needed) viable gun for the javelina and small white tail I have this gun for.
I can't figure out anything the grendel does better than I can do with either of those 2 rifles. Arguably they are better due to WAY more ammo availability and bullet options for loading, plus the significantly lower weight (all accessories being equal) with similar effective range.
So why not dump the grendel and switch it up? It will be even worse when they release it in 6.5 creedmoor
Theyre having lots of issues with the SFARs so far. Mangles brass, reliability problems, and once you glass, suppress, and accessorize them, weight penalty is real.
Another problem with .308 is sight picture disturbance. Its why I dont shoot .308 anymore. I love the sound of .308 impacting the target, but I would like to be able to witness it myself as I watch my sight picture.
Once you go too light with any of the .308-based cartridges in a gas gun, you run into problems with reliability.
Ive been chasing that monkey for many years and quit once 6.5 Grendel caught-on with me. I was primarily shooting 22 .260 Rem at the time, which is a superb rifle with Bartlein barrel and built by GAP, but I lose primer pockets after 3-4 loads. My initial brass I started with was Winchester 7mm-08 brass, very hard and durable, but at about $1/pc in the late 2000s. Thats not fun when youre shooting all the time, especially since you have to trim necks constantly, only to lose the brass quickly.
POF did the AR-15 frame .308 as a production model years after MGI pioneered a modular magazine well lower receiver that fed from M-14 mags in an AR-15 upper, but never worked.
POF has had lots of returns with them as well.
I think once you go lighter than the Savage MSR-10 for a .308 or 6.5CM, you run into problems.
MSR-10 has a smaller receiver set than an SR-25, but with SR-25 size bolt and barrel extension.
Empty weight on the MSR-10 16 .308 is over 8lbs. I havent even shot mine yet and have had it for 3 years. I panic-bought it in 2020.
No reason to dump the Grendel since its so much easier to practice with, even if you choose to take a .308 for game day. Grendel recoil and ease of sight picture management are just better.
Guns that are easy and pleasant to shoot are easy to hit with.
NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO
CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor
6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:
07-28-2023, 11:40 PM (This post was last modified: 07-28-2023, 11:48 PM by imaguy3.)
LRRPF52 Wrote:Theyre having lots of issues with the SFARs so far. Mangles brass, reliability problems, and once you glass, suppress, and accessorize them, weight penalty is real.
Another problem with .308 is sight picture disturbance. Its why I dont shoot .308 anymore. I love the sound of .308 impacting the target, but I would like to be able to witness it myself as I watch my sight picture.
Once you go too light with any of the .308-based cartridges in a gas gun, you run into problems with reliability.
Ive been chasing that monkey for many years and quit once 6.5 Grendel caught-on with me. I was primarily shooting 22 .260 Rem at the time, which is a superb rifle with Bartlein barrel and built by GAP, but I lose primer pockets after 3-4 loads. My initial brass I started with was Winchester 7mm-08 brass, very hard and durable, but at about $1/pc in the late 2000s. Thats not fun when youre shooting all the time, especially since you have to trim necks constantly, only to lose the brass quickly.
POF did the AR-15 frame .308 as a production model years after MGI pioneered a modular magazine well lower receiver that fed from M-14 mags in an AR-15 upper, but never worked.
POF has had lots of returns with them as well.
I think once you go lighter than the Savage MSR-10 for a .308 or 6.5CM, you run into problems.
MSR-10 has a smaller receiver set than an SR-25, but with SR-25 size bolt and barrel extension.
Empty weight on the MSR-10 16 .308 is over 8lbs. I havent even shot mine yet and have had it for 3 years. I panic-bought it in 2020.
No reason to dump the Grendel since its so much easier to practice with, even if you choose to take a .308 for game day. Grendel recoil and ease of sight picture management are just better.
Guns that are easy and pleasant to shoot are easy to hit with.
Thanks! that's the kind of answer I was looking for! I have no experience with AR10 type guns
POF has a reputation down here.. local guys call them POS lol.
imaguy3 Wrote:Thanks! that's the kind of answer I was looking for! I have no experience with AR10 type guns
POF has a reputation down here.. local guys call them POS lol.
For those that dont know this, Ive been a big AR-10 guy for decades. Ive owned at least 5 different AR-10s, have built and worked-on many, while having lots of trigger time with all sorts of SR-25s, ArmaLite AR-10s, DPMS LR-308s, LR-260s, 6.5 Creedmoors, .243 Win, and even 6.5x284.
I always wanted a 7.62 NATO CAR-15 and thought that would be the shizznit if there ever was one.
6.5 Grendel came along and ruined all of that for me. Its just too easy to shoot, load for, see your sight picture, and still get nice impacts on-target.
Do I wish it would hit as hard as a .308 Win? Absolutely, but at what cost? Im not willing to pay the penalty of losing my sight picture. I also dont like carrying fully-loaded .308 mags.
I did buy some of that extremely lightweight True Velocity polymer .308 ammo, but its $3/rd with mixed reviews as to reliability and accuracy, non-reloadable.
Im still thinking about a 12 AR-10 suppressed. Would be cooler in 7mm if you want downrange performance. A 7mm Creedmoor would be neat with 180 Bergers.
NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO
CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor
6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:
07-29-2023, 04:28 PM (This post was last modified: 07-29-2023, 11:28 PM by biodsl.)
Hes a simple blueprint for a six-pound AR build. Theres no titanium, magnesium or polymer in this build. Theres also no billet; the upper and lowers are forged Aeros. Pretty easy to do with your BA Fluted SPR barrel (that thing is sweet. I went looking for one in 6ARC but no joy).
I didnt itemize out the lower. I just weighed my lower with a Magpul CTR stock. My KP-15 polymer lower comes with 5.5 ounces lighter with a JP Capture Spring system. See photo.
The upper is 3.75 pounds (60 oz). The lower 2.2125 (35.4oz). The total is over a pound lighter than the Ruger SFAR in .308 and two pounds off your current build.
UPPER
Aero forged upper w/o forward assist 7.5 oz
BA SPR Fluted 16" 26.3
Hand guard Aero 12.7" S 8.9
Muzzle device A2 2.0
Gas Block SixFive Ultrablok 1.4
BCG SixFive 11.8
Charge Handle Geissele Super 1.5
Gas Tube Mid 0.6
60 ounces 3.75 lbs.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]19872[/ATTACH]
Paul Peloquin
Did government credibility die of Covid or with Covid?
* 16 Lilja MLGS Wasp profile barrel (.650 up to the shoulder step-up for the gas block, .750 journal, .740 medium heavy forend, threaded 5/8x24)
* Midwest 12 handguard Slim with sling swivel sockets
* Standard forged receiver set, M4 upper with Forward Assist
* Standard BCG
* LaRue MBT-2S
* SPR grip
* JP SCS
* B5 Multicam B5 stock
6lbs 5oz
If the forend was fluted and I used a no-FA upper, it would easily clear under 6lbs. No Ti, no Magnesium, no special lightweight parts.
This 16 carbine shoots too. Its more of a hummer than my 17.6, but I never shoot it, which is sad. Its so light and well-balanced, plus shockingly-accurate/precise.
If I could go back in time when we did the first Lilja group buy, I would have ordered at least two 14.5 pipes with this barrel profile.
NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO
CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor
6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:
i own several pof's in .308. i have a revolution that is extremely accurate and 8 lbs 9.6 ozs that is with an ior 1.5-8x scope.
i also have a couple rogues and they weigh just over 7.5 lbs scoped. and i do have a 12" rogue thats 7.25 lbs scoped. they are all reasonable accurate and reliable. but i find myself mostly shooting my 12" grendels.
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