cleaning fired brass 101

[eggman918]

I have just acquired the needed tooling to start reloading, a Lyman "package" deal that was on sale as well as dies for 6.5 G, .300BLK and .45ACP. yesterday I de-primed and cleaned 100 BLK's and 200 .45's as I have the needed components for them light 6.5 pills are few and far between locally and the 6.5's are coming on the brown truck.
The first of what I'm sure will be MANY questions is how do Y'All clean your brass I used RCBS formula 1 walnut shell dry media in the Lyman Turbo tumbler, it cleaned them well enough
but it was a huge dusty mess and required individual inspection of each case to clear flash holes AND I believe the cases will need to be rinsed?? to remove leftover dust before moving on to next step.
I entered the reloading "game" to increase the amount of time I can have with my shooting hobby as much as all the other benefits that come with it, I'm a retired machinist so this sort of tinkering is in my blood so the time is not a concern BUT I'm also very much OCD about doing things right in both the process and where the end products quality is. After my first round of cleaning I believe that there MUST be a better way to do this first step.
So what works best for those of you that have been at this for a while? I'm starting this trip as most do with baby steps and each answer will likely lead to 3 new questions so please bear with me, and if there is a more appropriate place for me to get the needed info point me to it and I'll come back here when my questions are at a level more suited to this section.
Thanks in advance to everyone.

[VASCAR2]

I always tumble my brass prior to de-capping so if any media is in the flash hole it is dislodged with the decapping pin while sizing. I use a primer pocket hand tool for cleaning (small or large pocket brush screw into the handle) primer pockets. I usually only clean rifle brass primer pockets. I have a hand tool for removing crimped primer pockets (manufactured by Hornady) on military cases.

I use an old Thumbler rock tumbler for cleaning my brass so it doesn’t loose the dust created by tumbling but I always have a rechargeable hand vacuum nearby. Generally my brass is not that dusty to where I have to clean them before sizing. I use Dillon case lube in the spray bottle. I usually have an old rag/towel or shop towel to wipe off brass while I clean the primer pockets after sizing.


My reloads are functional but I don’t try to have brass where the brass is shiny like new cases. I’m still using my RCBS Rock Chucker I bought in 1981 along with a 10-10 scale and accessories. I’m using a Hornady manual case trimmer for my rifle cases.

I bought a table top priming tool by RCBS which uses the same primer tubes as the priming tool on my Rock Chucker. I have the priming tool mounted to a small wooden board I C clamp to my reloading bench. I really like this RCBS priming tool much better than the hand tools you squeeze to set the primer in the brass cases.

[GREYBUFF]

I add NU Finish car polish to my media and let it run for a while before adding brass. I also add dryer sheets along w/the polish. I discovered these tricks from reloading sites and they seem to work very well. Leave the primers in and then deprime after cleaning. As for your RCBS priming tool, I have the same one and I cut the handle off 2 1/2" from the bolt and than welded a verticle handle to it. It's amazing how much better it works.

[tlen]

In addition to Nu Finish I add a couple cap fulls of paint thinner. You can also try corn cob media that WMT sell as reptile bedding. If you are cleaning .223 brass Harbor Freight walnut media works great as the small size doesn't clog up inside the cases

[StoneHendge]

I have used corn cob media ever since I started reloading except for once - when I accidentally grabbed a big plastic bucket of walnut media instead. What a dusty mess! Corn cob does create some dust, but nearly as much as walnut. I also found that although walnut polishes better, corn cob cleans better.

Also, ditch the brand name media and buy the big blue bucket of Berry's next time you find yourself near the Prescott Sportsman's Warehouse. I think it was $30 for 20 lbs last time I bought some.

[Jake TN]

Best advice I ever got: Throw out the vibratory tumbler and media. Get a wet tumbler. Knock out the primers with a dedicated depriming die ( Lee or mighty Armory). First wash will clean everything like it is new. You can use stainless pins or detergent of choice. Will even clean your primer pockets for you. After resizing and trimming put back in for a quick wash and add a little car wash soap with wax in it. You can use a food dehydrator, drying racks, or towel with fan to dry faster.

[Zeneffect]

deprime off bench (keep that press' ram clean!)
wet tumbler.. the frankford lite (smaller one)
stainless chips (not pins... never worry about flash holes)
dawn + lemishine + hot water
tumble, drain, rinse with COLD water (more hot water will change the color of the brass to not as bright)
cheapest food dehydrator on amazon, lowest setting and walk away for a while.

[Klem]

I save dry tumbling for precision rifle where cases are neck sized only - and handgun.

For dirty suppressed auto loaders they get the special treatment. Accumulate about 300-400 cases then run them an ultrasonic bath.

First remove the primers with a Lee universal deprimer.
Then clean them in batches in the ultrasonic. Cleaning mixture is;

[INDENT]1 cup water
1 cup cleaning vinegar
1/4 cup lemon juice
2 tblspn dishwashing detergent
2 tblspn salt[/INDENT]

(I need double this)

After about 20min per batch in the ultrasonic they are rinsed thoroughly in running water.

For drying I use a hair drier while shaking them around in a plastic collander. Then towel dry them with old towels from the op-shop. If Summer they go on a tray in direct sunlight, or into the oven on 60C for a while on a baking tray.

[eggman918]

Thanks to everyone for the voice of experience this will help me get up to speed as quickly and cost effectively as possible. looks like the "starter kit" in one box was just that no real surprise with something as involved as this should be if done right, being a "tool guy" makes perfect sense...…now to break it to the Wife. She is a good sport and is used to this sort of thing after 38 years, I sold me home built wooden sailboat to fund this expansion of my shooting hobby as I'm just too old and sore to keep at it and as we all know 'idle hands are the Devils workshop". I now have solid directions to start down this path and I'm sure that my questions have just begun.

[eggman918]

I have the RCBS depriming die and there is a used RCBS Jr. press I can pick up locally for $50.00 thinking this would be a cost effective dedicated tool.

[Harpoon1]

I shoot mostly bolt guns, so, the brass never hits the ground.

Lube with homemade a lanolin/alcohol mix.
Decap and resize in one stroke with a full length bushing die with an expander ball. No run out issues using tapered bushings.
Wet tumble, flush, then separate and hand dry in a beach towel.
Then right to the annealeez for annealing. This completely dries the inside of case at the same time. 100 cases take about 20 minutes to anneal and dry. I don’t know if it’s carbon from the propane torch or some residue from the brass gassing off but, this way seems to leave a little residue in the neck that acts like a lubricant. Done!

The larger the batch you process, the more efficient it is. Try to do at least 200-300 at a time.

If processing semi-auto brass, the first step is to clean in a vibratory tumbler with rice, corncob or walnut, whatever is on hand to knock off the big chunks, then follow the bolt gun process.

[GREYBUFF]

I have the RCBS depriming die and there is a used RCBS Jr. press I can pick up locally for $50.00 thinking this would be a cost effective dedicated tool.

I have had the RCBS JR. since I was 15. I'll be 70 this year and it's loaded alot of ammo and still going strong. I've reloaded from .38 all the way up to 45-70, It handles military 30-06 with no problem. A GREAT press.

[lazyengineer]

Best advice I ever got: Throw out the vibratory tumbler and media. Get a wet tumbler. Knock out the primers with a dedicated depriming die ( Lee or mighty Armory). First wash will clean everything like it is new. You can use stainless pins or detergent of choice. Will even clean your primer pockets for you. After resizing and trimming put back in for a quick wash and add a little car wash soap with wax in it. You can use a food dehydrator, drying racks, or towel with fan to dry faster.

That's what I do. Pop the primer, wet tumble with SS chips and lemishine and a couple drops of blue dawn. Range pickups that are covered in mud and black, come out looking Shiney and new. With clean primer pockets and any stuck in mud, pulverized out.

Resize, then wet tumble again without media, with lemishine again, and usually some turtlewax to leave a fine residual coating to mitigate cold welding with the bullet and the otherwise "too clean", brass.

[LRRPF52]

Each of the 3 main approaches to cleaning brass has its own benefits and trade-offs.

Dry tumbling with media
Wet tumbling with pins and solution
Ultrasonic cleaning

I personally am set up to dry tumble and use ultrasonic, but I have almost always used dry-tumbling. There is no right or wrong choice between these 3, just different pros and cons.

Cons for dry tumble are the initial dust and cleaning, some media will get jammed in the flash holes, plus how you will keep residue away from your press during de-priming.
Cons for wet tumble with pins are some pins get stuck in the flash holes, some pins get left in the cases and send sparks flying out when the charged cartridges are finally fired, and if you double-clean after sizing, you can dent the necks.
Cons for ultrasonic for me is that my ultrasonic cleaner can only hold so many cases, so I just don’t use it. Carbon residue ultrasonically welds to the stainless surface of the tub as well and requires special cleaning to remove.

When you start with new dry media, there is a break-in with the dust that goes away mostly on subsequent tumblings.

You then run the brass through a media separator if using that method.

Process looks like this:

Fired brass dumped into tumbler with tumbling media and dryer sheet to control dust

I run it for about a day to get better-than-new looking brass, while others just want a basic cleaning.

Dump the brass and media into a media separator and rotate until the brass is all separated.

Run the brass through the de-priming die with a universal de-capper. I used to de-prime and full-length re-size in one step, but now I like de-priming separately.

If you de-cap and full-length re-size:

Spray-lube the brass with the brass in case trays so I can get full coverage of the case bodies and necks, inside the necks. Let dry (happens fast due to the alcohol content).

The run them through the sizing die. I use the Hornady headspace comparator on my calipers to control how much I move the shoulder back, and test my cases and die set-up with the actual rifle chamber to ensure I’m getting bolt lock-up without too much shoulder movement/over-working the brass. I use a separate bolt with the same face depth and lug lengths that is stripped of the ejector and extractor to ensure that I will have consistent and reliable bolt lock-up.



Once I have the die set-up for consistent re-sizing for reliable chamber and bolt lock-up, I start cracking them through the sizing process.

I inspect and segregate my brass based on brand and # of firings. Different brands have different case capacities and volumes. Labeled bins or containers will help you segregate.

I often am shooting a mix of Hornady, Lapua, and PPU brass and don’t want them mixed up.

Before I prime, I like to chamfer my necks. If you have a case cleaning and trimming station, you can run your brass through all the neck and primer pocket processes at this stage.

I personally like to tumble-polish again once I have de-primed, full-length re-sized, and chamfered the necks due to the brass shavings and residue left over from the case lube.



Then I prime, charge, and double-seat my bullet tips. Double-seating is where you get the bullet started with the seating die, rotate it in the shell-holder, then fully-seat to eliminate run-out.




If you don’t have the 6.5 Grendel Handbooks yet, they will really go into this in even more depth, covering:

6.5 Grendel Brass Components
Once-fired Brass Prep
Cleaning and polishing
Inspection and Segregation
Chamfering and Deburring
Necks
Case Lubrication
6.5 Grendel shell holders
Sizing Dies
Different flash hole sizes between Lapua and other brass
Primers suitable for the AR-15 vs bolt guns
Primer Seating
Charging Cases
Scales
Powder Measuring Approaches
Bullet Seating Dies, COL, and trouble-shooting your seating depth for the chamber

[LRRPF52]

I will also submit that I am not set in my ways, and have changed several processes once I saw something I thought would be better, or learned the hard way wasn’t optimum for what I was doing.

Things I have changed on so far are:

Imperial Sizing Wax to Hornady One-Shot Spray Lube

Hand-priming tool to using the press to prime

Camming over with contact between the shell holder and die abandoned in-favor of using the headspace comparator kit when setting up the die and shell holder, along with the stripped bolt to determine I have bolt lock-up.

Lee press is only used for universal de-capping and priming, not sizing or seating due to runout between the ram and dies.

I prefer the Forster Co-Ax now due to how it naturally self-aligns and ease of die change-out.

[Zeneffect]

+1 on dented case mouths after 2nd cleaning, especially if you anneal. A uniform neck is a happy neck.

[eggman918]

LRRPF52 I had already concluded that I liked only 1 operation per handle stroke, I know that the human/machine interface is important the feedback in keeping things consistent.
Double seating now that you bring it up also makes good sense.
After priming 10 rounds with the hand priming tool I am not too pleased with it just seems subpar thought it might be me I'm gonna see about the RCBS JR. as a dedicated priming station.

To everyone who replied I again want to say Thankyou your responses were exactly what I had hoped to get as the "New Kid" on the shop floor I needed this from the FOG's who have been there and done that, to save me from having to learn it the hard way and the advice will shorten my learning curve.

I loaded 5 .300 BLK's to the starting load data and tested them about 05:30 this morning and all went as it should, but I have a question about velocity variations I got a 30 FPS spread 1,495 to 1,525 with 3 1,505 to 1,509 Book called for 1,516 is that a reasonable spread or is does quality control need to be increased?

[Jake TN]

That's what I do. Pop the primer, wet tumble with SS chips and lemishine and a couple drops of blue dawn. Range pickups that are covered in mud and black, come out looking Shiney and new. With clean primer pockets and any stuck in mud, pulverized out.

Resize, then wet tumble again without media, with lemishine again, and usually some turtlewax to leave a fine residual coating to mitigate cold welding with the bullet and the otherwise "too clean", brass.

Exactly what I do.

1. Cold water
2. Lemi shine (especially if you have hard water)
3. 1 Table spoon of dawn
4. Always use the pins form 1st wash

I have always used whatever carwash product for 2nd wash for the same reason you use turtle wax. Might have to pick up some turtle wax and give it a go. Who says you can’t teach an old dog new tricks.

[LRRPF52]

LRRPF52 I had already concluded that I liked only 1 operation per handle stroke, I know that the human/machine interface is important the feedback in keeping things consistent.
Double seating now that you bring it up also makes good sense.
After priming 10 rounds with the hand priming tool I am not too pleased with it just seems subpar thought it might be me I'm gonna see about the RCBS JR. as a dedicated priming station.

To everyone who replied I again want to say Thankyou your responses were exactly what I had hoped to get as the "New Kid" on the shop floor I needed this from the FOG's who have been there and done that, to save me from having to learn it the hard way and the advice will shorten my learning curve.

I loaded 5 .300 BLK's to the starting load data and tested them about 05:30 this morning and all went as it should, but I have a question about velocity variations I got a 30 FPS spread 1,495 to 1,525 with 3 1,505 to 1,509 Book called for 1,516 is that a reasonable spread or is does quality control need to be increased?

Especially with 300 Whisper/AAC/BLK, I would expect to see all kinds of extreme spread when loading rifle projectiles that aren’t meant for such low charge weights. Bill Alexander has a ton of experience dealing with the 300 Whisper as well, believe it or not, and has some interesting insights into it. The assortment of projectiles for .30 bores are primarily intended for high pressure, higher case volume cartridges that pressure up and drive the bullets into the lands with a lot more force, from cases that actually have a shoulder. .300 AAC is basically shooting a straight-walled pistol cartridge with superficial shoulders, with low propellant volume, and large rifle projectiles. This makes loading for 300 Blackout a challenge when looking at accuracy and consistency. He approached a pistol bullet company to make .30 cal pistol bullets for it as a result.

Alexander Arms has been making .300 AAC carbines and pistols for years and used to offer that ammo, but I don’t see it anymore.

There’s one guy I have seen so far who got his .300 BLK to shoot really tight groups, but everyone else has really struggled with them, including some of the top manufacturers in the industry. I wouldn’t sweat 30fps ES in the 300 BLK. That’s tight for that cartridge. Here’s a good article about this challenge:

300 BLK Accuracy Problems? Maybe it isn’t you...

Was I alone in my 300 BLK experience? Apparently not. I’ve gotten quite a few emails from shooters with experiences mirroring mine. Often they’ll ask something like, “I’ve been shooting and reloading for years, no matter what I try, I can’t get the gun to shoot better than 2 MOA, with an occasional 1 MOA group, why is this”?

It may only be me, but when I do encounter a 300 BLK that shoots, it’s often not a true 300 BLK. SAAMI specifies a 1 in 8? twist in order to stabilize the heavy loads, most of the uber accurate 300 BLKs you’ll see have a much slower twist to work with the supersonic loads.

So why do I think the 300 BLK isn’t an inherently accurate? Two reasons, case capacity and barrel twist.

The 300 BLK has such a small case you are effectively loading pistol powder into a rifle cartridge. This means smaller powder charges and faster powders. Not the best for accuracy. In many ways, the 300 BLK in design terms is the opposite of a modern match cartridge like the 6mm BR or 6.5×47 Lapua.

[Jake TN]

LRRPF52 I had already concluded that I liked only 1 operation per handle stroke, I know that the human/machine interface is important the feedback in keeping things consistent.
Double seating now that you bring it up also makes good sense.
After priming 10 rounds with the hand priming tool I am not too pleased with it just seems subpar thought it might be me I'm gonna see about the RCBS JR. as a dedicated priming station.

To everyone who replied I again want to say Thankyou your responses were exactly what I had hoped to get as the "New Kid" on the shop floor I needed this from the FOG's who have been there and done that, to save me from having to learn it the hard way and the advice will shorten my learning curve.

I loaded 5 .300 BLK's to the starting load data and tested them about 05:30 this morning and all went as it should, but I have a question about velocity variations I got a 30 FPS spread 1,495 to 1,525 with 3 1,505 to 1,509 Book called for 1,516 is that a reasonable spread or is does quality control need to be increased?

Lol. Looking forward to the responses ok this question. Could you provide more details;

Purpose of load
Expected range
Primer
Powder
Brass
Bullet
Load data
Etc