Grendel case trimming

[603 Country]

I ran through a good bit of reloads trying to find the magic load for the 123 gr SSTs, and then switching over to and sighting in the night vision scope. As I resized fired cases, I noticed that very little trimming was needed on those cases. Case length growth was minimal, compared to my 223 and 260 fired brass. The brass is Starline. The loads are neither minimum or maximum, at 27.2 gr of H335. I found the very minor case growth to be surprising. Is it due to the Grendel being a lower pressure round?

[LRRPF52]

Wanna know a secret?

I’ve never trimmed any of my Grendel cases, and have been shooting and reloading them since 2009.

At least not Lapua or Hornady brass. I have many pieces of the older Large Rifle Primer PPU brass that would need to be trimmed, but I don’t reload them.

I can’t remember if any of my Federal brass got near the 1.530” case length limit.

Low chamber pressure and efficient case design with the 30 degree shouder and short propellant column seem to contribute to minimal case length growth.

In contrast, I do have to trim .308 Win/7.62 NATO, .260 Remington, and .270 Winchester brass.

.308 and .260 Rem won’t even chamber unless I trim them.

It’s one of the reasons why I shoot Grendel so much and not the others anymore. I have a wife and 3 younger kids, plus 2 adult kids.

[603 Country]

Well, I’ll be darned…

[LRRPF52]

I almost exclusively load with CFE223 under 123gr bullets for my mass-production lots, namely 123gr A-AMAX.

My brass comes out looking new, tight primer pockets, ready for another load.

I load 31.2gr of CFE223 under 123gr Hornady A-MAX or SST.

It doesn’t generate a lot of chamber pressure, but exceeds factory 123gr velocity.

I double-polish though, before and after de-priming.

Hornady’s CFE223 data includes the 120gr GMX lumped-in with the 120gr A-MAX, 120gr ELD-M, 123gr SST, 123gr A-MAX, and 123gr ELD-M, so it sets the max charge off that 120gr GMX monolith, which is as long as many 140gr bullets, and is harder, so it resists being driven into the lands more than soft cup and core bullets.

I suspect my brass life would be lower and case growth longer if I was loading with something like 8208 XBR or AR Comp, but I would defer to those who mass-produce with those under 123gr and heavier/longer.

I have used 8208XBR under the 100gr NBT and 107gr SMK, as have several people I know in the real world, and I think they get at least 8 loads with Hornady brass with 8208 XBR/107 SMK. I’ll ask them next time we talk.

That includes 20” RLGS and 12” Grendel suppressed exclusively.

Most of my 123gr A-MAX/CFE223 has been shot through the 17.6” Lilja MLGS/-.625”.

[Harpoon1]

I almost exclusively load with CFE223 under 123gr bullets for my mass-production lots, namely 123gr A-AMAX.

My brass comes out looking new, tight primer pockets, ready for another load.

I load 31.2gr of CFE223 under 123gr Hornady A-MAX or SST.

It doesn’t generate a lot of chamber pressure, but exceeds factory 123gr velocity.

I double-polish though, before and after de-priming.

Hornady’s CFE223 data includes the 120gr GMX lumped-in with the 120gr A-MAX, 120gr ELD-M, 123gr SST, 123gr A-MAX, and 123gr ELD-M, so it sets the max charge off that 120gr GMX monolith, which is as long as many 140gr bullets, and is harder, so it resists being driven into the lands more than soft cup and core bullets.

I suspect my brass life would be lower and case growth longer if I was loading with something like 8208 XBR or AR Comp, but I would defer to those who mass-produce with those under 123gr and heavier/longer.

I have used 8208XBR under the 100gr NBT and 107gr SMK, as have several people I know in the real world, and I think they get at least 8 loads with Hornady brass with 8208 XBR/107 SMK. I’ll ask them next time we talk.

That includes 20” RLGS and 12” Grendel suppressed exclusively.

Most of my 123gr A-MAX/CFE223 has been shot through the 17.6” Lilja MLGS/-.625”.

Just curious why CFE223 instead of Lever? I find Lever has better es/sd and cleaner burning. Speeds are close enough to be a coin toss!

And……do you know why Hodgdon doesn’t include either in their Grendel load data? Both seem to work really well in the Grendel, any ideas what the issue is?

Have you tried CFE223/Lever with any lightweight bullets, 85,90,95?

[LRRPF52]

I have Leverevolution as well, but I don’t think I ran across it in any 8lb kegs.

It generates much higher velocities without pushing pressure as well.

CFE223 worked for me with lighter weight monoliths like 95gr Lehigh and 94gr GMX, but it might be a bit slow-burning for short cup and core bullets in the 85-95gr weights.

[Harpoon1]

I have Leverevolution as well, but I don’t think I ran across it in any 8lb kegs.

It generates much higher velocities without pushing pressure as well.

CFE223 worked for me with lighter weight monoliths like 95gr Lehigh and 94gr GMX, but it might be a bit slow-burning for short cup and core bullets in the 85-95gr weights.

Ok, so you’re using CFE223 with 120-123 grn bullets mostly out of convenience, because you have more of it on hand? Is that a fair representation?

No idea why Hodgdon doesn’t have data for either one with the Grendel?

[se3388]

My favorite load is CFE223 under a 100 gr Bal Tip, it gives well under 1 inch groups in my Mini MkX for Deer hunting.

Steve.........

[LRRPF52]

Ok, so you’re using CFE223 with 120-123 grn bullets mostly out of convenience, because you have more of it on hand? Is that a fair representation?

No idea why Hodgdon doesn’t have data for either one with the Grendel?

Performance was the main driver. Someone here turned me onto it back in 2012. Might have been Bwild97.

I was getting good performance with TAC too though.

I called Hodgdon about it back in 2014 I think and couldn’t wrestle an answer out of them on why they didn’t list it.

Hornady published data on it, so it has formal pressure test breech support.

[Harpoon1]

Performance was the main driver. Someone here turned me onto it back in 2012. Might have been Bwild97.

I was getting good performance with TAC too though.

I called Hodgdon about it back in 2014 I think and couldn’t wrestle an answer out of them on why they didn’t list it.

Hornady published data on it, so it has former pressure test breech support.

Ok, thanks!

[LRRPF52]

The main thing to keep in mind with case trimming is whether or not your case mouth is being forced into the angle from the neck to the throat in the chamber.

SAAMI minimum chamber length to that point is 1.530”.

Different reloading sources list different trim lengths from 1.506” (Western) to 1.520” (Alexander Arms), and maximum case lengths from 1.516” (Hornady) to 1.526” (Alexander Arms).

I have followed the AA case length recommendations from the start.

[lazyengineer]

In general sharp shoulder rounds like Grendel and Creedmoor don't tend to grow much or require trimming very often. I run them anyway in thr Giraud. Because the Giraud is also a QC check to test that the neck did get resized. (Brass not resized will bind up in a Giraud, which I use as a QC check feature)

[Mac4949]

Just starting to reload Grendel for AR15: Hornady and PPU brass. Interesting that u never trim. What abt anealing??

[603Country]

I vote for annealing Hornady, for sure. When I acquired a Grendel, I had everything I needed to load for it but brass. So, I paid too much for 200 rounds of Hornady factory 123 gr SST, with the plan or hope that I could load them 5 or 6 times to ease the pain of the price I had paid. I loaded 50 rounds with the once fired brass that I did not anneal. Of the 50 rounds, 49 cases had either split necks or shattered necks. Since then I have annealed all once fired Hornady brass, but have not reloaded any of it. I switched to Starline and have 2 reloads on 50 cases with no issues. Maybe I just got a bad batch of factory ammo.

[Klem]

603,

49 out of 50 once-fired cases splitting when re-loaded for only the second shot means something is wrong. No brass manufacturer I know has that failure rate. The chamber neck should be .3000" and if this is the case then you may be squeezing them too much.

Do you have any unsized spent cases that you can confirm the chamber's neck by measuring the case neck diameter?

What brand of sizing die are you using?

[TedBrewer5]

5-6 loadings on my hornady brass with only one case retired. I am now setup to anneal these cases going forward and will see where it goes.

[LRRPF52]

I vote for annealing Hornady, for sure. When I acquired a Grendel, I had everything I needed to load for it but brass. So, I paid too much for 200 rounds of Hornady factory 123 gr SST, with the plan or hope that I could load them 5 or 6 times to ease the pain of the price I had paid. I loaded 50 rounds with the once fired brass that I did not anneal. Of the 50 rounds, 49 cases had either split necks or shattered necks. Since then I have annealed all once fired Hornady brass, but have not reloaded any of it. I switched to Starline and have 2 reloads on 50 cases with no issues. Maybe I just got a bad batch of factory ammo.

I’ve never had a Hornady split neck yet. Early-on, I had one piece of Lapua brass split a neck, which I attribute to the fact that I was using Imperial Sizing Wax at the time and applied too much to it, overworking the neck.

I switched to Hornady One-Shot and have not had any issues since. It’s so much faster to use a spray lube anyway. I generously lube my cases, to include ensuring that lube gets inside the necks.

I let the brass dry and then proceed with the next steps in my process.

There were guys early-on here who shot their headstamps out of Lapua brass with 20+ firings.

I switch back and forth between shooting hand loads and factory ammo. I’ve shot a lot more factory ammo over the past 4-5 years I think.

[Harpoon1]

I’ve never had a Hornady split neck yet. Early-on, I had one piece of Lapua brass split a neck, which I attribute to the fact that I was using Imperial Sizing Wax at the time and applied too much to it, overworking the neck.

I switched to Hornady One-Shot and have not had any issues since. It’s so much faster to use a spray lube anyway. I generously lube my cases, to include ensuring that lube gets inside the necks.

I let the brass dry and then proceed with the next steps in my process.

There were guys early-on here who shot their headstamps out of Lapua brass with 20+ firings.

I switch back and forth between shooting hand loads and factory ammo. I’ve shot a lot more factory ammo over the past 4-5 years I think.

Do you clean the “one shot” off after sizing?

I just came across this, didn’t realize how much effect it could have.

Jump ahead to 10:00

https://youtu.be/bCdoGR9H6Nc

[LRRPF52]

Do you clean the “one shot” off after sizing?

I just came across this, didn’t realize how much effect it could have.

Jump ahead to 10:00

https://youtu.be/bCdoGR9H6Nc

I double-clean so that there is no residual case lube on the brass. The reason is that any case lube present will contribute to bolt thrust.

We want the clean brass to adhere to the case wall under pressure, not slide as it expands. Lubricated cases cause additional bolt thrust.

It sucks sometimes because polishing media can get stuck in your flash holes, but I think it’s worth it.

This is why some like to use steel media in a liquid solution, which then dries rapidly once they tumble-remove the steel.

You have to ensure that no steel media is left in the case though, as it will go flying down your barrel with observable sparks.

Everything is a trade-off.

I use a paper clip to make sure my primer pockets and flash holes are clear after my 2nd polishing to remove case lube.

I’ve been using walnut shell media in a powered case tumbler. I leave the brass in there overnight or until it has the sheen I’m looking for.

[LRRPF52]

I just watched that section of the clip from Hornady, which lays out what I was talking about.

This certainly isn’t hurting me with my bolt life.

After thousands upon thousands of rounds through multiple 6.5 Grendel AR-15s, I just haven’t ever had a bolt failure.

Also, since CFE223 is a bit on the slow side for burn rate behind a 123gr cup and core, chamber pressure isn’t pushing the edge.