Had a double fire

[603 Country]

Was shooting the Odin Works AR in 6.5 Grendel yesterday, checking the scope setting. Ammo was Hornady 123 gr SST factory. I was surprised to have a double fire. The trigger is a Geiselle. Would this likely be a trigger issue? Your thoughts?

[Csitt]

We're you using handloads or factory ammo? Sounds like you might have had a slam fire. Thin primer meets firing.

Chuck S.

[Zeneffect]

I have seen double fires from inexperienced users (inexperienced on a light trigger AR) not properly following through on hsnm. Accidental double tap/bump fire. Seen double, triple, and quad... on my gun handed off to someone else.

Probably your pull, follow through like you are supposed to.

[Sputnik]

I have seen double fires from inexperienced users (inexperienced on a light trigger AR) not properly following through on hsnm. Accidental double tap/bump fire. Seen double, triple, and quad... on my gun handed off to someone else.

Probably your pull, follow through like you are supposed to.

+1 Holding the butt stock loosely against your shoulder may allow the recoil to cause the rifle to bounce off your shoulder and cause your finger to press the trigger again

[grayfox]

Had 1 or 2 of those in the past... what I found out for me was I was trying to "just break" the trigger -- result being it double-whammied. Now what I do (since I'm not shooting at any zombie horde anyway), is when pulling the trigger for the break, pull it all the way back into its mech stop, then let go. Firmer pull fixed it for me.
Might try that next time.

[CJW]

Zen and Fox are dead on………….

I’ve shot Oden uppers for a long time……..

A super light trigger…….not worth the worry.

[603 Country]

It is a light single stage trigger. I was shooting for accuracy, so probably was light on the trigger. User error, I guess. My other AR has a 2 stage LaRue, which I actually prefer over this Geiselle.

The rifle was firm against my shoulder, so no bounce there.

[LRRPF52]

You really have to follow-through with a light single stage trigger when shooting semi-autos. Light single stage triggers are meant for really rapid strings of fire with minimal split times on a shot timer.

Not saying this is you, but almost every shooter I have had come through courses has a habit of immediately letting their finger off the trigger when the shot breaks, then popping their head up as quick as possible to see if they can see impact somehow with naked eye, (physically impossible). It’s an especially difficult bad habit to correct if someone has learned to shoot that way.

During follow-through, you should have your eyes open and remain in the optic or sight picture, and reacquire the sight picture as soon as possible if it is disturbed by recoil and muzzle blast.

Trigger should be held to the rear with firmness after a straight-back, tiny icicle break.

A perfect follow-through would look like you were a statue and the rifle doesn’t move at all.

[603 Country]

I appreciate any and all feedback. I’ve been shooting for about 67 years, so not new to that. USMC Rifle Expert in the 70’s. These days most of my paper shooting is on my 100 yard range, and all scopes are at least 14 power on the high side, so I stay on the gun to see where the bullet strike was. Most of my rifles are bolt guns with light triggers, but no matter how bad my trigger control might be, they’ll only shoot once. This AR is the only one I have with a light trigger, so maybe a minor bad habit of mine has been revealed.

It occurs to me (now) that my asking a question like I did doesn’t say anything about my shooting experience or lack thereof. That said, I did learn a bit from you guys on use of a light single stage trigger on the AR. I’ll apply that in the future. And I’ll dry fire a few times tomorrow to pay attention to my trigger pull technique.

[grayfox]

ARs are a different animal.
I actually prefer bolt actions to the AR, even though I have a couple... I'm still a nub in the black rifle category...

[Klem]

603,

What type of Geiselle is it? The reason I ask is that the Geiselle Hi-speed NM is adjustable to the point bump fires are inevitable. The others are fixed at the factory.

Regardless, I'm with the guys on this; it's likely a bump fire caused by the gun recoiling back onto your finger. I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet, as 52 is saying, good trigger manipulation is pulling the trigger to the rear until we see the splash on the target - then release.

In your case I'd be seeing if I could do it again, to see what causes it.

[Zeneffect]

Recognizing that this occurs with a light trigger on an AR (as bolt goes forward, so does a secondary recoil which is enough to pull the trigger again without even feeling it if no follow through) will make you a better shooter in the end. I run a 1.5# timney on all of mine, I don't have this issue but just about everyone else does when they try my rifle. Comes with the territory, you get used to it and you are better for it with improved trigger technique after re-learning.

[603 Country]

Klem, I don’t know what model # trigger it is. I’ll go to then gunshop tomorrow and ask. If the trigger is adjustable, I’ll heavy up the break point a bit.

The first time I shot the rifle I was surprised at how light the trigger was. I can see how the double fire could have happened.

[Klem]

Klem, I don’t know what model # trigger it is. I’ll go to then gunshop tomorrow and ask. .

603,

No need for the armourers. The NM has a noticeable block at the rear that the others don't. This is a picture from Geiselle's website.
https://geissele.com/triggers.html

If bought fully assembled it is unlikely to be a NM because that is their most expensive and wasted on the average plinker. It's more likely to be an SSA or an SSA-E. Regardless, they are all capable of bump fire if not firmly held, and trigger to the rear as part of the shot sequence.

This is an SSA-E which is probably what you have. It's greased up but you can see it doesn't have the NM block behind the Disconnector.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]19314[/ATTACH]

[Zeneffect]

The high speed national match trigger is a 2 stage, so doubt it's that.

[Klem]

Zene,

He has a Geisselle and most of them are 2-stage.

[Zeneffect]

And described as a light single stage trigger.... so that would exclude high speed national match.

[Klem]

And described as a light single stage trigger.... so that would exclude high speed national match.

Fair point.

The majority of Geissele's triggers are two stage however. Even their 3-gun which they call a 'Hybrid rolling lock' is a two stage with springs calibrated to have the first stage seamlessly transition into the second stage. They do have a Single Stage Precision (M4) so it will be interesting to know exactly what it is.

603,
You are certain it is a single stage? Do you have a trigger gauge, or a spring scale that can measure a couple of lbs?

[603 Country]

I suppose that it could technically be a 2 stage, but feels single stage to me. It’s light and breaks quickly with no noticeable travel. Somewhere around here I have a sheet of paper with all the build parts and prices listed. I’ll see if I can find it. I’m sure I put it somewhere I’d be sure to find it if I needed it, and you know that means I have no idea where it is.

I don’t have a trigger gauge.

I’ll go look for the list. Time passes…and I found the list. There isn’t a model number, just the words “Geissele Flat Single Trigger” and a price of $240.

I went to the gunshop. This is a single stage 3.5# pull, with a flat trigger. After discussing this issue with the very knowledgeable gunshop crew, the consensus was that the double fire was the fault of the trigger puller and not the trigger itself.

So I bought a comfort food donut next door and drove home.

[LRRPF52]

Ha ha! Comfort donut

If your trigger behaves that way, it’s great for a run-and-gun set up for 3-Gun.

If you’re Grendel is more hunting oriented, you might want a curved trigger with 4.5# pull weight, 2-stage.