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LRRPF52 Wrote:The last time ATF took someone to court over a pistol brace, they lost the case, and it was an attachment crime to something unrelated.
In that instance, the accused had put a plug in the back of the pistol brace, which they argued that it then became a stock.
There have also been a recent series of very large blocks of The House and Senate who have sent letters demanding explanation for ATFs actions over multiple issues regarding pistol braces and suppressors, due to ATF criminal conduct and errant rulings or letters sent to various dealers, that conflict with existing statutes or other official opinions they have (unconstitutionally) excreted from their bureaucratic orifices.
Congress controls their budget, so they can screw around and see what happens.
I of course recognize them for the unconstitutional organization that they are. You cant have a Federal Agency specifically tasked with violating the Bill of Rights. it doesnt matter how many other retards in office agree with it, how many court rulings they cite, or how many statutes within Treasury or Justice Departments they reference. Imagine if there was a Federal Agency tasked with restricting exercise of religion, freedom of press, speech, etc.
They need to be bullied (only language they understand) into submission until they stay in the corner where they dont even have a right to exist, or more ideally: abolished entirely, along with NFA.
If you live in a Federal region where they get away with harassing citizens and FFLs more, then its more of a concern for you.
If you dont, and live in a firearms freedom State, you can generally do what you want.
Its a great case for how unequally the Bill of Rights are applied in the Nation though.
The legal angles for annihilating the NFA and ATF are plentiful. Since there is no money for it for the sell-out traitors and opportunists in Congress, they barely give it lip service if enough constituents raise hell on their phone lines and emails.
You are correct about the pistol brace cases, which is why they are changing the definitions.
Notice I was laying out the case of owning a short upper and a rifle lower when you DO NOT own a pistol lower. More than one person has been put in jail over that scenario.
The NFA has to go. All of it was both arbitrary and capricious.
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03-25-2022, 06:45 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-25-2022, 09:44 PM by SDW.)
outbreaker Wrote:Notice I was laying out the case of owning a short upper and a rifle lower when you DO NOT own a pistol lower. More than one person has been put in jail over that scenario.
Yep, that's what I was talking about earlier in this discussion. See post #12. It could be a problem where I live.
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ike838 Wrote:Hi all, just wondering about the legal liabilities of having a pistol upper or two in the "to be built" pile.
I have a few complete rifle length gas builds completed and also have a pair of nice lightweight 16" barrels by BCM and Faxon, receivers, A2 stocks etc in the "to be built pile".
Should I just build the lowers install the pistol uppers and take pics and then call it good?
Currently my shortest barrels are 18". Never really got into the whole fireball of doom and blast from the pistol uppers that I have seen but I do concede they might have their place.
So the basic question is: Would a pistol upper in a house that contains complete and incomplete firearms be in any danger of being considered a SBR?
Thanks for your help.
Why are you even worried with a 16 in. barrel? That is a rifle not a pistol. SBR is less than 16 inches.
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CMoor Wrote:Why are you even worried with a 16 in. barrel? That is a rifle not a pistol. SBR is less than 16 inches.
I was not worried about the 16" barrels. Just examples of parts I have on hand.
I am considering getting a pistol upper to add to the pile as well.
I have two unbuilt lowers that were transfered as "Other".
As I stated earlier I will just build one of those with a brace, buy the pistol upper and take a few pictures to avoid any gray areas.
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ike838 Wrote:I was not worried about the 16" barrels. Just examples of parts I have on hand.
I am considering getting a pistol upper to add to the pile as well.
I have two unbuilt lowers that were transfered as "Other".
As I stated earlier I will just build one of those with a brace, buy the pistol upper and take a few pictures to avoid any gray areas.
With the new pistol brace rulings not finalized I would not have a brace on the pistol but just a buffer tube.
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ike838 Wrote:I am considering getting a pistol upper to add to the pile as well.
...
As I stated earlier I will just build one of those with a brace, buy the pistol upper and take a few pictures to avoid any gray areas.
Again, no such thing as a "pistol upper". It's just an upper with a short barrel (by legal def, under 16"). Especially if it's something that's just to "add to the pile"---of other uppers presumably. May as well start using the correct terminology at this point of the thread.
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SDW Wrote:Again, no such thing as a "pistol upper". It's just an upper with a short barrel (by legal def, under 16"). Especially if it's something that's just to "add to the pile"---of other uppers presumably. May as well start using the correct terminology at this point of the thread.
I know the terminology. That is why I am considering building a pistol.
A SBR is another kettle of fish.
Why do companies sell pistol uppers and weapons if there is "no such thing"?
For me it would be a toy. No day to day practical use for me.
Side note SDW. Didn't think having spare build parts on hand was unusual. To each their own.
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An upper is just an upper. It's the lower that determines if it's a pistol or rifle.
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ike838 Wrote:I know the terminology. That is why I am considering building a pistol.
A SBR is another kettle of fish.
Why do companies sell pistol uppers and weapons if there is "no such thing"?
For me it would be a toy. No day to day practical use for me.
Side note SDW. Didn't think having spare build parts on hand was unusual. To each their own.
Having them is not unusual. You just have to make sure you have a non-NFA way to assemble them otherwise the ATF will assume you are assembling an NFA item.
Remember that the ATF has no problems killing your dog, you and your family to enforce its laws.
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Build what you want and don't advertise it or post it on the internet?
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ike838 Wrote:Why do companies sell pistol uppers and weapons if there is "no such thing"?
Pure marketing BS to the masses who don't know any better. As has been stated, a pistol upper does not exist. A short barrel upper certainly exists. Pistol and Rifle lowers certainly exist. Put that short barrel upper on a pistol lower and you have a pistol, sold as a pistol. Put that short barrel upper on a rifle lower and you have a SBR that you better have a tax stamp for before you do it.
