Not Grendel 300 HAM'R

[kmon]

I know we have discussed this round on here. For those that might want a 300 HAM'R in a bolt action there is a do it yourself option now available for the Ruger Ranch rifle.

We've finally got the Ruger Ranch rifle 300 HAM'R conversion stuff up on the web site

The barrel kit (Barrel 16" 1-15 twist with black ArmorTuff finish, barrel nut, wrench and headspacing gage) is $249.95 order # BR-300HRACK

The kit and installation which includes black ArmorTuff finish on the receiver is $400. order #RUG-300HAMR-C

.223/5.56, .300BLK (best choice due to magazine compatibility) or .350 Legend guns can be converted

For anyone wanting a bolt action 300 HAM'R the Wilson Combat/Ruger conversion is the way to go. Mine is a 1/2-3/4" MOA tack-driver and has already proven itself to be an ideal deer rifle.

Saw this on another Forum. The first quote is Mr. Bill Wilson owner of Wilson Combat

[grayfox]

what kind of ammo or handloading is out there?
I have a 300 BO, but it's a howa. I'll keep it.
getting a ruger predator wouldn't be too hard I think.

[Oso Polaris]

what kind of ammo or handloading is out there?
I have a 300 BO, but it's a howa. I'll keep it.
getting a ruger predator wouldn't be too hard I think.

I have stepped into this caliber for my AR15 Hog Hunting Rig (upgrading from 300BO), and as we speak I am actually loading up some 125gr TNT for it. I wrote a post on this caliber a couple of months back to see what others were thinking.... Grendel Forum is for purists

What I have learned after reading all posts on the 76 page thread about the 300HAM'R on the Texas Hunting Forum is as follows... Bill Wilson has going out of his way to get this cartridge properly launched with industry support. Sig Sauer requested SAAMI certification for the 300 HAM'R, which was granted in Jan 2020 right before Covid Panic/Pandemic turned the firearm industry upside down. Unlike the early years of the Grendel, there is no trademark fiasco so appears that industry participants are more actively participating from the onset.
https://www.wilsoncombat.com/300-hamr/
https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbt...7506626/30

Everything you want/need for the 300HAM'R is available through Wilson Combat, and it is priced extremely reasonable...no Pandemic premium or Firearm Panic markup. I was pleasantly surprised by this!
https://shopwilsoncombat.com/300-HAMR/departments/1074/

Barrrels:
Prefit (AR15) - at the moment Wilson Combat "WC" is the primary source of barrels ($200-$280). https://shopwilsoncombat.com/300-HAMR-Ba...ucts/1072/
Prefit (Bolt) - WC has a kit for the Ruger Ranch. https://shopwilsoncombat.com/CONVERSION-...-300HRACK/
Based on thread, WC spun up a couple of barrels for the Howa Mini, but that didn't pass muster, because of the mag release's tendency to spit out magazine while being carried.

Shaw is also making custom barrels. https://www.shawcustombarrels.com/news/n...arrels/244

Reamer
It is a SAAMI cartridge so any reamer maker. Also, PGT has one in stock.
4DReamerRental has reamer for rent. https://4drentals.com/product/300-hamr/

Handloading - Load Data
https://www.wilsoncombat.com/wp-content/...5-20F1.pdf

Brass:
Sig is producing cases (nickel & brass). I just bought Sig nickel cases from WC for $38/100 cases. https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Reloading-C...ducts/470/
Starline is producing brass cases ($78/250 cases) https://www.starlinebrass.com/300-hamr-brass/ and you can also buy from WC site.
or Make your own brass by converting any .223/5.56 cases... just like making 300BO.

Bullets:
As far as projectiles the 300HAM'R has about 30 different popular bullets ranging from 95gr to 150gr. For the most part these are commonly found bullets used for .308. In addition, Speer and Lehigh Defense have been tailoring some of their bullets to optimize in the 300 HAM'R.

Dies:
RCBS 300 HAM'R Dies
Lee Precision 300 HAM'R Dies
Case Gage and Bullet Seating Gage by WC that mirrors chamber reamer.

Ammunitions:
WC has become a mini-ammo plant for the 300 HAM'R. You can buy directly from them (use link and then scroll down WC page). https://shopwilsoncombat.com/300-HAMR-Am...ucts/1070/
Note: WC offers a variety of ammo with selection of different weight/styles of bullets for 300 HAM'R. Supply/availability of the WC ammunition is dependent on their ability to source bullets from the bullet manufacturers, with availability differing by specific bullets. Same issue throughout the industry.
Sig Sauer is also set to manufacture ammo...hence, they are making brass cases for the 300HAM"R and requested SAAMI certification of the cartridge.

[kmon]

This thread over on a site I spend a lot of time on has lots of info on the 300 HAM'R and is where that quote in the original post came from though you have to go near the end of that thread which is any pages long, to get to that one. https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbt...cs/8426787

Lots of reloading discussion and hunting discussion on that link as well. SIG is the ammo company that worked with Wilson combat to get SAAMI designation. Per SAAMI

SAAMI drawing https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/202...uction.pdf

With 150gr bullets and less it performs much like the 30-30 from looking at the ballistics but is available for the AR and was designed around it. Should make for a good hunting round inside 200 yards perhaps further in capable hands. light recoil as well.

I haven't stepped into it and doubt I will but is is an interesting round. If I were buying guns and trying them like I did for years I would have given it a try already.

[Oso Polaris]

A couple of things caught my attention about 300HAMR:
1) Velocity Equal or Greater than 6.5 Grendel at all bullet weight out to +300 yards … then higher BC of 6.5mm starts beating out .30 cal
2) Ability to load heavier 130gr-150gr bullets for larger game
3) Extremely friendly for reloading - huge selection of bullets, commercial brass and ability to form/converted from .223/5.56 cases
4) Simple equipment swap of only a barrel to convert standard AR with no concerns about additional stress on parts
5) No 6-10 month delay/lead time to obtain a quality 6.5 Grendel barrel from PF, which is the way I would go if I were to build a AR15 Grendel.

I already load for 300BO so have large stash of bullets and donor brass on hand. Easy fun project for AR15.

All things being the same (bullet weight and velocity) from a hunting perspective, the larger diameter bullet creates larger wound channel and greater likelihood of complete bullet expansion. All good points for killing pigs.

[Old Bob]

No one has mentioned load data for the 300 HAM'R so I went to google (I typed in 300 HAM'R load data) & found there's some data to be found going that route. Also, the Hodgdon 2021 reloading manual has 300 HAM'R data.

I have Bill Wilson's first attempt at a 30 caliber AR15, the 7.62X40WT. I liked the rifle well enough to start using it in 3 gun matches where the longest ranges were under 300yds. Past 300yds I still used my 5.56mm NATO rifle. The recoil isn't much different than the 5.56 & pretty darn accurate. I'm still on the fence about adding the 300 HAM'R to my stable of ARs. I have three 5.56/.223 ARs. I might convert one of them if I decide to get into this new cartridge.

From Wilson Combat's site:


  300-HAMR-LOAD-DATA-5-20F1.pdf (Size: 9.98 KB / Downloads: 10)

[Brazz04]

I've still not figured out this cartridge or why someone would want it. It runs the same speed as a grendel (or granted maybe even 100fps faster for the same bullet). But the bullet you are shooting from is has half the BC. The BC is so bad, the grendel catches it in energy at 100 yards (if you start the HAM'R at 2500fps vs grendel at 2400fps assuming a 16" barrel).

And I hate the argument that it uses all the same components as a standard 5.56. Are you really building a bunch of 5.56 uppers that aren't complete with a BCG and just swapping a single BCG between them? With a gendel or SPC or any other you only have to buy magazines (if you can't afford two magazines, should you be into shooting sports?). BCG's are part of the upper that you're buying anyway, so that's not any kind of extra cost.

For bullet weight, is someone really going to load a 150gr bullet all the way down to 2250fps and going to take elk with that? Anything can be done, but that is living right on the edge of not enough rifle. For hunting deer under 300 yards, it's just fine as a cartridge, it just seems like there are better options that beat it in nearly every category with almost no trade offs.

[Oso Polaris]

I've still not figured out this cartridge or why someone would want it. It runs the same speed as a grendel (or granted maybe even 100fps faster for the same bullet). But the bullet you are shooting from is has half the BC. The BC is so bad, the grendel catches it in energy at 100 yards (if you start the HAM'R at 2500fps vs grendel at 2400fps assuming a 16" barrel).

And I hate the argument that it uses all the same components as a standard 5.56. Are you really building a bunch of 5.56 uppers that aren't complete with a BCG and just swapping a single BCG between them? With a gendel or SPC or any other you only have to buy magazines (if you can't afford two magazines, should you be into shooting sports?). BCG's are part of the upper that you're buying anyway, so that's not any kind of extra cost.

For bullet weight, is someone really going to load a 150gr bullet all the way down to 2250fps and going to take elk with that? Anything can be done, but that is living right on the edge of not enough rifle. For hunting deer under 300 yards, it's just fine as a cartridge, it just seems like there are better options that beat it in nearly every category with almost no trade offs.

The attraction of the 6.5 Grendel is the combination of several key attributes... the Trifecta:
1) Power - largest case capacity in AR15 platform.
2) Accuracy
3) Long Range Potential - high BC bullet coupled with heavier bullets allows it to be a 800-100 yard gun.

But lets be honest... the vast majority of rifles, including Grendels, never get shot beyond 100 yards at the range or in the woods. Members of this forum are not a representative cross-section of the shooting populace, most of who simply buy a box of ammo off the store shelf and that it. With this in mind, 300 yards is the outer limit that the average Joe will ever shoot anything at the range or hunting. The Grendel and the HAM'R now look very similar...

Based on observations of fellow shooters, most people start with an entry-level AR15 (5.56) and then 1-2 years later buy a second AR15 (upgrade), and then maybe buy a AR pistol, and then start adding additional AR's in different calibers either by buying entire rifles or different dedicated uppers. I am guessing that the majority (+90%) of AR15s sold are chambered in .223/5.56 so the "simply swapping out a barrel" is a legitimate argument, because it has the lowest threshold level to overcome. The 300 HAMR is straightforward. There is no confusion for inexperienced shooter to get their mind around "Type 1" or "Type II" bolts and chamber matching and the stories and warning ... this just is an added layer of confusion and complexity that results in buyer uncertainty about the Grendel. With the 300 HAMR there are no concerns or cost associated with new type of magazine (2x price of a PMag) or the need and additional cost ($200-$300) for a new Grendel BCG. Remember we are talking about the average Joe, not an enthusiast, so these things add up quickly... the risk of stepping out on a limb with a cartridge that none of your friends or family have ever seen or used is significant and the additional cost is tangible. I take one of my least favorite AR15's and spend $250 on a drop-in barrel and I can now go join a new forum as a card carrying member... oh wait 300 HAMR doesn't have a forum, yet.

The BS around the Alexander Arm's business model/marketing strategy for 6.5 Grendel (first 10 years after its introduction) adversely impacted the ability to find Grendel ammunition or buy aftermarket rifle components...it really hurt the cartridges introduction and acceptance. This fumble allowed the 300 Blackout too become the second most successful cartridge for the AR15 behind the .223/5.56. On any given day, more targets are shot with and more game are killed with a 300BO than a 6.5 Grendel...marketshare is a numbers game. I've been killing hogs using a 300BO using 110gr Barnes TSX at 2250fps with most of the pigs weighing between #125-#250, and some larger #300-#450. Hogs drop dead and taste great. Imagine the effect or simply additional confidence that a 150gr Speer Gold Dot bullet doing the same velocity would give the average Joe shooter. That is 40 extra grains.... almost same step-up from a 77gr 5.56 to a 123gr 6.5 Grendel.

I have friends who a die-hard fan-boys of particular guns or cartridges, Glock, Creedmoor, Grendel, AK's, and don't forget the Mosin Nagant fan club. I am not caliber-centric. I like right-sizing the cartridge to the desired use... I don't under-gun for a challenge when hunting because I believe in ethical kills. Also, I don't see a reason to over-gun a hunt. For any given shooting situation there are a several quality cartridges with overlapping performance that can be chosen. Optimizing the right balance of cartridge performance and rifle configuration is always my goal.

I like being intellectually honest - You mentioned the 300 HAMR has deficits in every category.... I think you should step back and take a better look at the Grendel. There are superior cartridges in every category with less tradeoff then the 6.5 Grendel as well. For hunting applications the 300HAMR is equal or better than 6.5 Grendel under 300 yards and in all SBR applications, plus ammo and reloading components (bullets and brass) are less expensive (20%-30%) for 300 HAMR. Also, as I recall the 6.8 SPC delivers more energy then 6.5 Grendel out to 450'ish yards. If your argument is based on higher BC of Grendel that makes it superior for distance then you now are talking about mid-range / long range and there are superior cartridges for this range like a Creedmoor and a number of other slightly larger cartridges that all eat its lunch. Big Caveat... in cartridges limited to 2.26" OAL the Grendel is the best all around cartridge... but only truly superior beyond 450yards but and 2nd best in most everything else in an AR15....

You should go check out the 300 HAMR Thread on Texas Hunting Forum. What you'll see/learn is a bunch a first-hand field experience with the cartridge and a lot of hunting photos of dead hogs, black bear, Elk, African Game, and small size game like deer. It's an eye opener.

I will continue to recommend the 6.5 Grendel for people who are interested in larger cartridge for AR15 and looking to shoot longer distances. As ammunition becomes more commonplace for 300 HAMR then I will start recommending it to friends looking for a more powerful hunting round (within 300 yards) and especially as a conversion/upgrade to 300BO.

[Brazz04]

Ya...that was a lot time and effort to say exactly what I said earlier.

Grendel or SPC already exist and do everything a ham'r will do, plus you can shoot long range.

Stop fooling yourself, neither is much more or less expensive (you keep talking about hunting rifles that shoot what 100 rounds a year?), and buying a magazine or two to support a different cartridge makes no difference to your wallet.

I've read the ham'r threads, that's why I came to the conclusion that I'm at. It's not eye opening in the least.

[grayfox]

I could be somewhat interested in the hamr, except it needs powders I don't have, and new dies (which I can get obviously), and new brass (I'm not a 556 trimmer)......... and not excited about $40/box of factory ammo, altho Wilson does have some - which is why most all of my loads now are handloads...
If I could do it in a bolt action that would be better but I do have some AR parts laying around...

All in all, under the present scarcity situation, powders become the limiting factor.
So for now I'll shoot and tune in my existing rifles.
Maybe sometime, a hamr would be ok. think I would name it Mike (Mike Hamr, hahaha, get it?) since Stoney names all of his toys.

[Oso Polaris]

Ya...that was a lot time and effort to say exactly what I said earlier.

Grendel or SPC already exist and do everything a ham'r will do, plus you can shoot long range.

Stop fooling yourself, neither is much more or less expensive (you keep talking about hunting rifles that shoot what 100 rounds a year?), and buying a magazine or two to support a different cartridge makes no difference to your wallet.

I've read the ham'r threads, that's why I came to the conclusion that I'm at. It's not eye opening in the least.

HAHAHA - I just looked at this. I have been sick so my sleep cycle is screwed (up & down). I don't remember writing that much the prednisone steroids & sleep deficit may an interesting combo! LOL

Just to be clear - I am a Grendel fan, but with a balances approach. I don't buy into the "Only One" caliber belief. I like having choices and options, and I don't mind reloading for multiple calibers.

By hunting rifles I mean mostly AR15's with expected use of plinking and general use, such as hunting, as compared to precision, long-range rifles. I serve as an RSO at my home-range, which is a NRA 1000-yard range. How often do you think a Grendel is seen on 300 yards, lone enough 600-1000 yards. I appreciate the longer-range potential of the 6.5 Grendel, but as the expression goes "What settles out after the wash..." is that most Grendel shooters never utilize the long-range potential of the cartridge. I see and find more 224 Valkyrie at 300 yard range then Grendel. The greater BC advantage beyond 300 yards only means something to a very small percentage of Grendel owners. The Grendel's long range potential for most shooters is like owning a Ferrari as your daily ride.... the 160mph top speed is bragging rights at the water cooler but otherwise means nothing unless you are also a member of a race track.

From a reloading perspective the 300 HAMR is more flexible with huge selection of bullets, and decent selection of brass at reasonable prices plus DIY case conversions option for free. Depending on bullet, I can buy 4 boxes of .308 for price of 5-6 boxes of 6.5mm. Cost break is do to the significant production volume of .308 bullets as compared to 6.5mm bullets. The guys I shoot with go through 1000-2000 rounds a year. It adds up enough to pay for the additional reloading gear (dies & gages) needed for 300 HAMR.

There are some newbie budget shooters that spending $100 on new magazines is an issue.... Yes, small dollars items for us, but maybe real money to others. I have a brother in law that could never afford to buy his own rifle even though he was all about the outdoor life... had to explain if he didn't watch baseball and football for next 2 moths he could buy $1000 rig from money he saved on not paying for beer and wings while watching the games.

I think once you take the "long-range potential" of the 6.5 Grendel or even 6.8SPC off the table , and we look at AR15 Cartridges based on real-life application in the field then we are splitting hairs on 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC and 300 HAMR. When Sig Sauer and other major manufacturers starts offering their rifles chambered in 300 HAMR and factory ammo on the shelf then the changes in marketshare will tell us just how much the Average Joe shooter cares about the 800-1000 yard capability of these size cartridges.

I think Bill Wilson mirrored your final comment in his evaluation of the 6ARC (6mm Grendel) that Hornady asked him to test. You may recall seeing his thoughts/review on the cartridge in the 300 HAMR thread.

[LR1955]

Guys:

Done yet? The .300 HMR is based off of a 5.56 case, not a Grendel case. It really has no place on the Grendel forum.

I kept it open because others may be interested in it but really -- it has nothing to do with a Grendel. Somehow I doubt it can compete with a Grendel or a 6.8.

Plus OP needs to get his sleep cycle squared away.

Will keep it open till tomorrow so post what you want but its pretty obvious this .300 HMR is really a .300 'Tac' HMR and is left behind by a Grendel or 6.8 for any purpose I can think of.

LR-55

[grendelnubi]

My observations regarding the ham'r have very positive. It appears, based on what I have seen, to be an accurate design that is easy to get to shoot good. The short projectiles that are available allows 1-13 to 1-15 twist rates to be used and that could be a major contributor to the higher velocities they are seeing. I can only wish for 2500 fps using a 130 gr projectile out of an 18" barrel.

For me, I am primarily a hunter that very rarely shoots beyond 200 yards. The Ham'r will fits that just fine....

Regarding closing this thread, what unruly rules are being broken?
Please let us know…..

[LR1955]

My observations regarding the ham'r have very positive. It appears, based on what I have seen, to be an accurate design that is easy to get to shoot good. The short projectiles that are available allows 1-13 to 1-15 twist rates to be used and that could be a major contributor to the higher velocities they are seeing. I can only wish for 2500 fps using a 130 gr projectile out of an 18" barrel.

For me, I am primarily a hunter that very rarely shoots beyond 200 yards. The Ham'r will fits that just fine....

Regarding closing this thread, what unruly rules are being broken?
Please let us know…..

GN:

This thread is entitled "6.5 Grendel Bolt Actions and Single Shots". Note the key word -- "6.5 Grendel". The .300 HMR is not a 6.5 Grendel.

If the .300 HMR was derived directly from a 6.5 Grendel case, it would be fine but the .300 HMR is derived from a 5.56 case so it isn't even close to a Grendel.

The only things in common are that both can be shot out of a bolt action rifle or a AR-15.

So, there you go.

LR-55

[Oso Polaris]

LR1955,

Fair enough... thanks for you patience/indulgence!

[Stinky Coyote]

The 123 gr eld-m hornady is .5 bc and even more importantly for hunting is .252 sd. The .30 cal bullet that matches that is 168 gr at .253 sd and ballistic tips to eld-m’s range from .49 to .52 bc.

If you believe in ft/lbs all these are the wrong cartridges lol. If you believe in impact velocity, sectional density, proper construction for game intended and good bc to retain velocities then we are in the right place.

You can better the Grendel 123 with a .308 running 168 eld as it will be about 100 fps faster. Recoil with the .308 will be more than double the Grendel though. Yes they will both penetrate the same depth.

This is why the 6.5’s are over achievers. It’s the unusually high sd and bc for weight that the majority of the 6.5 bullets have. Everything under 168 gr in .308 is a step down imo.

I shoot grendel and I only hunt. I understand the numbers. I have kids and friends and why shoot more recoil if no need. I like the 10 round ar mags in the ranch platform and mdt chassis with adjustable lop butt stocks to fit anyone as well.

This 300 HMR sounds like a 30-30 for the AR platform, which is fantastic idea for those in love with the early 20th century performance. That’s going back to 20th century ballistics though. I’d stick to the Grendel and it’s 21st century ballistics. Not much inside 400 yards can handle the Grendel and 123's.

Big game rule of thumbs on SD (Sectional Density), .2 or greater for class 2 game (deer/sheep etc.) and .25 or higher for class 3 game (elk/moose). The wee 6.5 Grendel enters into class 3 game territory, and class 2 game doesn't stand much of a chance to as far as you can hit em. As evidenced by 752 yard antelope posted on this forum. We have over 300 yard whitetail bucks taken out of 12" barrel rigs with spectacular performance as well. Both of those in the 1500-1600 fps impact velocity range which is ideal for eld's or a-max and class 2 game. Stick to 300-400 or less on the class 3 game depending on your barrel lengths and good shot opportunities and you're good to go.

As soon as you move up to .30 cal in these ~30 gr powder burners you lose penetration ability and velocity retention. The Grendel is the most efficient use of 30 grains of powder along with the 6 ARC but lots of guys prefer 120 gr or more lead for big game hunting so the 6mm seems to get the nod for more target/class 2 game/varmints. Most big game happens inside 400 and the Grendel holds advantage for number of reasons including bullet construction and being slower for it so it retains sd and penetration, the 6 arc starts moving the same construction too fast and it will shed sd quicker and penetration will be less due to that. The Grendel has magic in it's numbers for the eld-m type bullet construction. Penetration and energy dump is ideal.