10-07-2021, 11:46 PM (This post was last modified: 10-07-2021, 11:49 PM by jasper2408.)
Ok, going to play devils advocate here.
Why not just shoot flat base bullets at 100-200yd ranges? The are supposed to be fully stabilized at those ranges and very accurate. Maybe this is how Mr. Neary is able to see under stabilized and over stabilized prints on paper.
jasper2408 Wrote:Ok, going to play devils advocate here.
Why not just shoot flat base bullets at 100-200yd ranges? The are supposed to be fully stabilized at those ranges and very accurate. Maybe this is how Mr. Neary is able to see under stabilized and over stabilized prints on paper.
Jasper,
Fair point - That's the theory. I have noticed however that from a Lilja the 120ELD-M (boat tail) shoots just as accurately at 100 as the 120NBT (flat base). The 107SMK (boat tail) shoots really well at 100yds too.
I have no doubt Mr Neary is on to something but I am wondering the physics behind hole sizes.
Fair point - That's the theory. I have noticed however that from a Lilja the 120ELD-M (boat tail) shoots just as accurately at 100 as the 120NBT (flat base). The 107SMK (boat tail) shoots really well at 100yds too.
I have no doubt Mr Neary is on to something but I am wondering the physics behind hole sizes.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]18273[/ATTACH]
I agree on the hole sizes. I know that Mr. Neary will not do this, but I would like to see him hold up 3 targets with holes of each type of unstabilized/stabilized/overstabilized bullet that he is talking about. I also realize that they are shooting 6mm whatever and I am trying to apply it to a 6.5 Grendel.
Evidently the bullet companies have found a good reason to put boattails on their hunting bullets when they know that most likely they will be used at less than 200yds. Maybe the yaw is what makes them so disruptive at close range.
Anyway at this point I caught myself overthinking this and forgetting that this is supposed to be fun and not work.
A large percentage of 6mm custom benchrest bullets nowdays are boattails fired in 6PPC's. I have shot next to Jack and a number of other hall of fame shooters and at least in our sport when they talk I listen. He is relating to highly specialized shooting system's that eliminates a lot of variables and allows for some extremely discerning analysis. On all my rifles besides the competition PPC's I don't worry about bullet holes.
jasper2408 Wrote:Ok, going to play devils advocate here.
Why not just shoot flat base bullets at 100-200yd ranges? The are supposed to be fully stabilized at those ranges and very accurate. Maybe this is how Mr. Neary is able to see under stabilized and over stabilized prints on paper.
Jasper:
Yes -- why not? I think guys get into a OCD sort of mental state over boat tail bullets for 100 and 200. Even 300 for that matter. I think they fear not shooting them more than shooting them! When I was swaging bullets I shot a lot of flat base bullets in practice and at matches for 200 and even 300. They are a lot cheaper than boat tails and if you swage them, flat base bullets remove two steps from the swaging process and the ease of making them made them more reliable. However, I could make them long enough and heavy enough too. I would say a 100 to 120 grain flat base 6.5 bullet with a six or seven tangent ogive would do pretty well to 300 from a Grendel.
If I may interject my 2 cents on hole size. For many years I shot targets nailed to fence posts or what ever I could find handy. The supposed small (fast) holes look just like the ones I used to get from not supporting the target sufficiently. Consequently the target paper stretched before the bullet was able to "punch" the hole resulting in an undersized , oddly shaped hole.
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The size and shape of holes is going to tell you a lot more about your paper than your bullet. This is the same group. Target printed on standard store brand white free sheet (which is going to use hardwood pulp - likely from Brazil these days) stapled onto a backstop made from thin corrogated cardboard stock (a sheet of thin corrugated paperboard sandwiched between two sheets of paperboard (all softwood pulp) stapled to a frame made from pine 1x2s). The frame does have some fore to aft movement since it stands in thin steel cups in cement in the ground.
Same group. This is the free sheet target:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]18274[/ATTACH]
This is the cardboard stock behind it:
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Holes were made with 6.5mm 123 gr Scenars launched at 2870 with Shooters World Precision in a 1:8 twist 22" steel Proof Research 6.5 CM barrel.
Hardwood pulp has a much shorter fiber than softwood. Paperboard / cardboard has a longer fiber, and it also has varying degrees of clay in it. The cardboard stock is of reasonable quality - not like the crappy cardboard used to box Made In China crap you get at Walmart.
StoneHendge Wrote:The size and shape of holes is going to tell you a lot more about your paper than your bullet. This is the same group. Target printed on standard store brand white free sheet (which is going to use hardwood pulp - likely from Brazil these days) stapled onto a backstop made from thin corrogated cardboard stock (a sheet of thin corrugated paperboard sandwiched between two sheets of paperboard (all softwood pulp) stapled to a frame made from pine 1x2s). The frame does have some fore to aft movement since it stands in thin steel cups in cement in the ground.
Same group. This is the free sheet target:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]18274[/ATTACH]
This is the cardboard stock behind it:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]18275[/ATTACH]
Holes were made with 6.5mm 123 gr Scenars launched at 2870 with Shooters World Precision in a 1:8 twist 22" steel Proof Research 6.5 CM barrel.
Hardwood pulp has a much shorter fiber than softwood. Paperboard / cardboard has a longer fiber, and it also has varying degrees of clay in it. The cardboard stock is of reasonable quality - not like the crappy cardboard used to box Made In China crap you get at Walmart.
I use Avery stickers to cover the old holes on my cardboard after removing the shot targets and that helps keep the target holes from tearing out so bad when I shoot with the same backing each time. I get the 30"x20" white cardboard sheets from Walmart and I have a TargetMeister stand that I can adjust to the width of any size target I need and I just clamp the cardboard to the wood uprights. Is very stable in the wind and I can use it for rifle or handgun targets. I have been using my target backers for about 4 years now. Just bought some new backers this year but I didn't really need them as the others are still good to go.
For what it matters. A trick I use is a pizza box lid with birchwood Casey stickers. They leave the prettiest holes in that thickness of cardboard Hunt brothers boxes work excellent for it
