Ok, I asked a question already in the Hunting section, got the needed answers there. Now coming here to finish up to start figuring out the rough cost. As I looked through the forum, something that A5Blaster really resonated with me when building the upper - Do I have the ability/skills and most importantly patience, to build an upper to what I want it to do. In short, I don't. I have complete faith in myself when building lowers, but when it comes uppers, I have an honest feel I don't have the needed skills to do it.
In essence here it is what is up:
Purpose - Primary is hunting (most common will be 50-150 yds with possible shots out to 300). Also like to target shoot/develop load for hunting. Very much hog hunting and deer in swampy type of areas
Barrel Length - I like the mid length system to pair with an A5 buffer system so would like 16", but if need to will go to 18".
Barrel - From my hunting topic, ideally base the upper around a Lilja, but like to know other alternatives.
Cost: 800-900 ideally. This will leave me some money for scope and trigger.
Speaking of trigger - which one would be ideal for hunting and target shooting?
As to the upper, sqaure the reciver face and start installing parts. When it comes time to install the gas block and tube, flip the upper upside down with the bcg fully seated, that will help you feel that the gas tube is lined up properly and not have a binding issue when the bcg is moving.
Keep the torque on the gas block and muzzle device as low as possible, red loctite and a accuwasher is best, skip the crush washer junk.
The barrel. Lijia are any thing from PF will give you the accuracy you want, everything else is rack grade and a 50/50 it will shoot or be crap.
Doesnt take expensive tools too build a upper either.
BVickery1974 Wrote:Ok. I talked with a cop friend, he already has all the tools and can build it that way.
So looked over PF's site and settled on a Criterion barrel.
Here is what I came out with:
6.5 Grendel Criterion Barrel: 6.5 Grendel Criterion Barrel
Options: 16 inch
Options: Add Superlative Arms Low Profile Adjustable Gas Block (+$90.00)
Options: Add Mid Length Gas Tube (+$12.00)
Options: Dimple Barrel for Standard Low Profile Gas Block (+$20.00)
Missing anything?
Dimpling can have accuracy issues if the set screw is tightened down too tight. 20 inch pounds is recommended with the set screw in the dimple, "with this type of gas block" instead of the standard 25" pounds.. Clamp type is preferable if accuracy is paramount. I prefer the SLR adj gas block, which is easier to service and adjust IMO. All adjustable gas blocks will leak more gas, "than a standard gas block" if the journal size is of equal quality. Remember, an adjustable gas block can only restrict the barrel's port gas, it cannot increase it.. The quality of the BCG and gas system with the interaction of the buffer spring-BCG weight, will all come into play with regard to reliability...
montana Wrote:Dimpling can have accuracy issues if the set screw is tightened down too tight. 20 inch pounds is recommended with the set screw in the dimple, "with this type of gas block" instead of the standard 25" pounds.. Clamp type is preferable if accuracy is paramount. I prefer the SLR adj gas block, which is easier to service and adjust IMO. All adjustable gas blocks will leak more gas, "than a standard gas block" if the journal size is of equal quality. Remember, an adjustable gas block can only restrict the barrel's port gas, it cannot increase it.. The quality of the BCG and gas system with the interaction of the buffer spring-BCG weight, will all come into play with regard to reliability...
I figured as much, and as I said, got access to to one. If I get a clamp style adjustable, dimpling or not?
BVickery1974 Wrote:I figured as much, and as I said, got access to to one. If I get a clamp style adjustable, dimpling or not?
It depends on what your goal is. I use both types, but I use the clamp on gas blocks for the rifles I want peak accuracy. For a hunting rig the set screw should be adequate. You will have to decide which one is best for your set up. Clamp on gas blocks require a bigger hand guard I.D. compared to the set screw type. If you decide to use the screw type, I would only lightly dimple the barrel directly under the gas port and tighten both screws to the 20 inch pounds as I suggested before. You can use Red loctite or Rocksett for a thread locker. Rocksett resits heat better, but is harder to break if the need to remove the gas block occurs. Two barrel dimples are not necessary to prevent gas block slippage. If possible, I would use a jig made for dimpling and use a bore scope to verify the gas block port is not clocked from the barrel port before dimpling. SLR makes a good jig for this process. They can be purchased for the proper barrel journal size.https://slrrifleworks.com/750-dimpling-jig/
montana Wrote:It depends on what your goal is. I use both types, but I use the clamp on gas blocks for the rifles I want peak accuracy. For a hunting rig the set screw should be adequate. You will have to decide which one is best for your set up. Clamp on gas blocks require a bigger hand guard I.D. compared to the set screw type. If you decide to use the screw type, I would only lightly dimple the barrel directly under the gas port and tighten both screws to the 20 inch pounds as I suggested before. You can use Red loctite or Rocksett for a thread locker. Rocksett resits heat better, but is harder to break if the need to remove the gas block occurs. Two barrel dimples are not necessary to prevent gas block slippage. If possible, I would use a jig made for dimpling and use a bore scope to verify the gas block port is not clocked from the barrel port before dimpling. SLR makes a good jig for this process. They can be purchased for the proper barrel journal size.https://slrrifleworks.com/750-dimpling-jig/
Actually PF has an option that they do the dimpling already.
A5BLASTER Wrote:Lijia are any thing from PF will give you the accuracy you want, everything else is rack grade and a 50/50 it will shoot or be crap.
I'm really pleased with my ole "rack grade" Shilen. It came with the bolt too.
I've bought two more for other rifles since that one and getting ready to buy a fourth. Hope it shoots like the other three.
Wheelhorse Wrote:I'm really pleased with my ole "rack grade" Shilen. It came with the bolt too.
I've bought two more for other rifles since that one and getting ready to buy a fourth. Hope it shoots like the other three.
Shilen is not rack grade, but I suspect you know that.
I would put Shilen just below Lilja, Bartlein and krieger. Krieger and Bartlein are cut barrels, while Lilja and Shilen prefer button rifling. Button rifling can be as precise but the barrels need de-stressing. That said, if that is done properly then it's also down to the smith who profiles and chambers it.
I have only had one Shilen in another calibre and it shot sub MOA, but not as precise as the Kreigers. One barrel is not enough to generalize to a population of barrels but I am also going on shooters talking on the mound. F-Class and Fly shooters change their barrel annually and are always talking about things like this.
'Regardless, 'rack grade' is a lot lower and cheaper than the careful machinists at Shilen, that is for sure.
Zeneffect Wrote:Where does criterion sit then? I think of it as the poor man's krieger since criterion began life in the krieger facility to my understanding.
To be honest I don't know; never used, seen or heard anyone who has used them in bolt gun competition. No-one in that type of shooting can afford be concerned about price if they want to be competitive. I go on what the champions use; so if Criterion is used by Olympic shooters then that's good enough for me.
06-07-2021, 03:41 AM (This post was last modified: 06-07-2021, 03:52 AM by Wheelhorse.)
Klem Wrote:Shilen is not rack grade, but I suspect you know that.
I would put Shilen just below Lilja, Bartlein and krieger. Krieger and Bartlein are cut barrels, while Lilja and Shilen prefer button rifling. Button rifling can be as precise but the barrels need de-stressing. That said, if that is done properly then it's also down to the smith who profiles and chambers it.
I have only had one Shilen in another calibre and it shot sub MOA, but not as precise as the Kreigers. One barrel is not enough to generalize to a population of barrels but I am also going on shooters talking on the mound. F-Class and Fly shooters change their barrel annually and are always talking about things like this.
'Regardless, 'rack grade' is a lot lower and cheaper than the careful machinists at Shilen, that is for sure.
No, I don't think they're "rack grade" at all and my post you quoted was in direct response to A5 saying, "Lijia are any thing from PF will give you the accuracy you want, everything else is rack grade".
Apparently, A5 thinks they're "Rack grade". IMHO, he's painting with a pretty broad brush.
Wheelhorse Wrote:No, I don't think they're "rack grade" at all and my post you quoted was in direct response to A5 saying, "Lijia are any thing from PF will give you the accuracy you want, everything else is rack grade".
Apparently, A5 thinks they're "Rack grade". IMHO, he's painting with a pretty broad brush.
Go sit down somewheres and have your snowflake moment dude.
I was responding to the OP and the barrels he was talking about.
I'd skip the "squaring" of the receiver face unless you think that you (and your tools) are better metal workers than the folks who do it for a living. I've never done it with multiple Aero, Spikes, Anderson, 2A, etc. receivers and never had an issue.
A5BLASTER Wrote:Go sit down somewheres and have your snowflake moment dude.
I was responding to the OP and the barrels he was talking about.
In the 1st post in this thread, the OP was asking for alternatives to Lilja, and no other brand was mentioned until you came along in post # 2 and said anything that didn't come from PF was "rack grade". Go back and read it.
It takes a real snowflake to get his panties in a wad when called out on a mistake instead of admitting it.
Op just fork out the cash for a Lilja, it will shoot better than you can and you will know that you didn't settle for a rack grade barrel which is what the Criterion is considered. If your lucky Rebby may just have a 16" Lilja in stock for immediate use if you check his group buy thread on this site and it is well worth the extra $75.
Lastrites Wrote:Op just fork out the cash for a Lilja, it will shoot better than you can and you will know that you didn't settle for a rack grade barrel which is what the Criterion is considered. If your lucky Rebby may just have a 16" Lilja in stock for immediate use if you check his group buy thread on this site and it is well worth the extra $75.
That would be my advice too but I did not want to push you into something if you were set on a cheaper truck gun.
Buying a drop-in direct from Lilja plus a matching Maxim bolt is cost effective and you have the guts of an Olympic-grade hunting/target rifle.
You can still get someone to put it together for you but you supply the barrel and bolt.
I recommend the clamping type of adjustable gas block for a better clamp and seal. No need for a dimple. SLR Sentry works for me but other types will too.
If you buy a decent upper you won't need to square it unless there's something wrong with it.
