Hello.
I think this is probably the right place for my truckload of questions. If I can just get pointed in the right direction, I will be happy to read up on what I need to.
So, here we go.
I have an armalite ar15 in .223 I don't use for anything. I would like to know if it makes sense to convert this to 6.5 as opposed to buying something different.
I want to use the gun for whitetail, coyote, and groundhog. For shooting groundhogs the gun must be very accurate. I have shooting medals from the military and I was a 1000 yard competitor, so I can shoot well enough.
But I do not know much about the ar15 platform or what is required to make it drive tacks.
I did have a 458socom, just not enough velocity for me.
If this works, I will have a good general purpose go-to gun.
Thanks!
Welcome. And well... to hit a grounhog at 1000 yards your gonna need a scope. Probably a different scope then your gonna use when hunting whitetails @ 100 yards. A 6.5 Grendel with a 24 inch barrel sounds like what you are looking for. I am not sure what your questions are, maybe if you used question marks (looks like this ? ) at the end of each question, we could answer better.
hm2 clark Wrote:Welcome. And well... to hit a grounhog at 1000 yards your gonna need a scope. Probably a different scope then your gonna use when hunting whitetails @ 100 yards. A 6.5 Grendel with a 24 inch barrel sounds like what you are looking for. I am not sure what your questions are, maybe if you used question marks (looks like this ? ) at the end of each question, we could answer better.
Wow. Sorry about that.:o
Let me try something with some questions. I can't believe I did that.
1) Is the armalite likely to be a suitable platform for building a 1/2 (or so) moa rifle?
2) Specifically what parts would I need for this project?
3) Where could I learn to do this job? I'm thinking youtube may have the answer on this one. I have a gunsmith friend who I am sure would help if necessary, but I try not to take up too much of his time.
I've broken clay pidgeons laying on the burm at 1000 with my 300wm. I'm not expecting quite that much accuracy from a semi-auto hunting rifle. Groundhogs at 300 would be nice though. I have a 6.5-20 Leupold which should be adequate for that.
Thanks for the response. Still can't believe my first post was such a mess.
I'm thinking an 18" or 20" barrel will give you all the accuracy you'll need. A 24" will give you more velocity, thus accuracy at greater range, but it'll also give you more weight. No fun to lug around while hunting. I opted for a stiff 18" barrel (due any day now) because my research on this site indicated it was the most versatile. As for your Armalite rifle, as long as it's in good shape there should be no issues for what your intended uses are. A good trigger (like a Giessele or JP) will also improve accuracy, regardless of the barrel length. Just my $0.02 worth. 
Welcome. All you need to convert your existing AR is:
1) Grendel AR15 barrel
2) Grendel bolt (usually comes with barrel when ordered from AA, Satern, J&T, Templar)
3) Grendel mags
Appropriate tools for AR15 upper receiver work, like an armorer's wrench, vice, receiver jaws or insert, punches, and common tools.
Depending on your bolt carrier and buffer, you might want/need a heavier buffer, like a standard AR15 rifle buffer + M16 bolt carrier, or an H2 or H3 carbine buffer if you have a carbine.
Hi Frank,
Welcome! Go for it. I think you'll be happy with the Grendel conversion if you get a good barrel.
Pretty much any mil spec or close AR-15 can be converted. The videos on you tube about building an AR apply to a Grendel, but they are all over the map so take them with a grain of salt.
You need a good quality barrel. Torque the barrel nut well. Align the gas tube and gas block properly and seal them. Leaks here can affect accuracy. Did I say torque the barrel nut well? Then re-torque it.
The Grendel puts a little more strain there than the .556 so it has to be done right to get and keep good accuracy.
You don't have to use a floating barrel forearm, but it will improve accuracy.
What style of upper is it? A flat top? A flat top is more versatile, but any type will work. The Armalite uppers have a decent reputation.
The trigger, as you probably already know, can make a huge difference in accuracy.
For white tails and coyotes the standard parts will do, But groundhogs at extended ranges are more of a challenge.
You might think that going with lighter, faster bullets would be the thing for distance shooting, but the higher BC of the 120-123 grain bullets and their ability to buck the wind better usually wins out at longer ranges.
Most people have good luck with the Hornady 123 AMaxes, they tend to work well in most barrel/chamber combinations. They would be a good place to start.
Good Luck!
RR
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I'd add something, but they already pretty well covered it.LOL
So I'll say: Welcome aboard!
Frank, Welcome to the Horde and enjoy your build.
Where are you located? You might want to add your location, at least your state, to your profile so maybe someone in your area( yes we're everywhere) could offer to give you a hand or at least help supervise the build with you.
If nothing else, someone in your area may already have the necessary tools so you wouldn't have to purchase them right away.
Welcome again and keep those questions coming.
Lee
Wow, this is going to be easier than I thought. Here is my rifle http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=15A4B , it seems to be all basic mil spec, I should be fine, but I'll check a little more just to be sure.
I now understand there are a few grendel-type calibers, SAOD and others. Could I get some suggestions for specific manufacturers who should be top notch barrel makers? It sounds like AA makes good stuff, SAOD is also sounding good. Who else?
Here is one I am looking at: http://www.ar15performance.com/264lbc
18" seems like it would work well for my purposes.
My wants are strongly effected by my long range experience, so I want high BC bullets with as much velocity as they can stand. But the reality is that my shots will be mostly 300 yds and less, and I may spend a lot of time carrying this gun, and creeping through the brush. Still, I'll probably opt for heavy bullets to give them some penetration advantage.
Oh, the gun is a flat top, and it's had a moderately good trigger job. I may upgrade the trigger at some point, and the pins.
Thanks for the help.
RangerRick Wrote:Hi Frank,
Welcome! Go for it. I think you'll be happy with the Grendel conversion if you get a good barrel.
Pretty much any mil spec or close AR-15 can be converted. The videos on you tube about building an AR apply to a Grendel, but they are all over the map so take them with a grain of salt.
You need a good quality barrel. Torque the barrel nut well. Align the gas tube and gas block properly and seal them. Leaks here can affect accuracy. Did I say torque the barrel nut well? Then re-torque it.
The Grendel puts a little more strain there than the .556 so it has to be done right to get and keep good accuracy.
You don't have to use a floating barrel forearm, but it will improve accuracy.
What style of upper is it? A flat top? A flat top is more versatile, but any type will work. The Armalite uppers have a decent reputation.
The trigger, as you probably already know, can make a huge difference in accuracy.
For white tails and coyotes the standard parts will do, But groundhogs at extended ranges are more of a challenge.
You might think that going with lighter, faster bullets would be the thing for distance shooting, but the higher BC of the 120-123 grain bullets and their ability to buck the wind better usually wins out at longer ranges.
Most people have good luck with the Hornady 123 AMaxes, they tend to work well in most barrel/chamber combinations. They would be a good place to start.
Good Luck!
RR
Posts: 2,075
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Joined: Mar 2011
frank4570 Wrote:Wow, this is going to be easier than I thought. Here is my rifle http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=15A4B , it seems to be all basic mil spec, I should be fine, but I'll check a little more just to be sure.
I now understand there are a few grendel-type calibers, SAOD and others. Could I get some suggestions for specific manufacturers who should be top notch barrel makers? It sounds like AA makes good stuff, SAOD is also sounding good. Who else?
Here is one I am looking at: http://www.ar15performance.com/264lbc
18" seems like it would work well for my purposes.
My wants are strongly effected by my long range experience, so I want high BC bullets with as much velocity as they can stand. But the reality is that my shots will be mostly 300 yds and less, and I may spend a lot of time carrying this gun, and creeping through the brush. Still, I'll probably opt for heavy bullets to give them some penetration advantage.
Oh, the gun is a flat top, and it's had a moderately good trigger job. I may upgrade the trigger at some point, and the pins.
Thanks for the help.
The conversion is simple but there are a few processes you need to properly follow like torquing the barrel nut. There is plenty of info here and on the web on how to do that so I won't re-hash it.
The ideal bullet weight for this cartridge is 120-123 grains. 100 grain projectiles perform very well also but the 140gr+ bullets aren't ideal because of limited case capacity. You can expect 2500 FPS +- from 123 gr bullets.
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Most here would recommend that you stay with the standard Grendel 6.5 SAAMI chamber. AA, Templar Consulting, JT, and others build barrels with that chamber.
Good luck with your build.
If you are considering SAOD, you might want to make sure you can find their address and actually talk with someone there. It appears to be a web front for a business; No phone number, no physical address on the web page for contact. Only an email address.
You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live. - John Galt
You might want to go look at the barrel & bolt kits at Alexander Arms. http://www.shopalexanderarms.com/6.5_Gre..._Kits.html
I just ordered a black coated 16" barrel w/ flash-hider for under $240, delivered. It looks like the 18" barrel is the same price. If I were you, I'd go ahead and get the Grendel bolt while you're there.
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From everything I've read and experienced with AR-15 regarding accuracy the barrel is the most important component and should be free floated. You also need a good trigger and scope. From my reading most people seem to think the cut rifled barrels produce the best accuracy but are pricey. Normally your going to have invest more money to get the best accuracy with the broadest spectrum of ammo.
My purposes are served by an off the rack variety of 6.5 Grendrel, 16" barrel light weight carbine. It is wise to decide how your going to use your rifle and the level of accuracy you want or need compared to what your willing to spend.
VASCAR2 Wrote:From everything I've read and experienced with AR-15 regarding accuracy the barrel is the most important component and should be free floated.
Crap. I forgot this rifle has the old m16 style handguard which snaps onto the barrel at the gas block. That can't be good.
Looks like I'll need a gas block, and a different hand guard.
Can a new handguard be just snapped into the ring at the receiver or am I going to have to change that too?:mad:
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I would switch out the d ring hand gaurd of a free float tube. This is an easy change when doing the barrel
Oh and welcome these guys are a wealth of information.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
CPT.CRAZY Wrote:I would switch out the d ring hand gaurd of a free float tube. This is an easy change when doing the barrel
Oh and welcome these guys are a wealth of information.
You just went over my head. Did you mis-type any of those words?
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frank4570 Wrote:You just went over my head. Did you mis-type any of those words?
No- the d-ring is part of a "mil-spec" barrel nut. It's the spring loaded part that holds the hand guards on. Most free float hand guards have their own barrel nut but some clamp onto a mil-spec barrel nut after the d-ring is removed.
The proper name for the D-ring, is "Delta" ring. It is held in place onto the barrel nut by a snap ring.
So, barrel and bolt. AND gas block, free float handguard, delta ring tool. Is that about it?
I wonder how close I am to the price of a whole new upper?
frank4570 Wrote:Crap. I forgot this rifle has the old m16 style handguard which snaps onto the barrel at the gas block. That can't be good.
Looks like I'll need a gas block, and a different hand guard.
Can a new handguard be just snapped into the ring at the receiver or am I going to have to change that too?:mad:
In my opinion: Yes, free-floating is much superior in terms of accuracy. However, some applications don't require THAT much accuracy and in those circumstances free-floating is an unnecessary expense. It sounds like your squirrel-hunting will require the floating, though. Based on advice from LRRPF52 I'm looking at these floated handguards: http://store.troyind.com/Troy_BattleRail...1bt-01.htm
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