Problems with Wolf Ammo

[sneaky one]

Cap k. I went thru the same pain in 08.' Wolf ammo is not good in the sp 123 loading-I have 5-6 boxes left, no one wants it-whee ! I'll save it for the 4th-July... The AA upper I have was diagnosed with a weak extractor setup. I installed a-- D fender extractor enhancer--- it's been running fine since then. It also seemed , the wolf sp. ammo dirtied up the chamber real quick= dirty, sleazy powders .,,, a startup co. such as AA , must have had a tough time to convince all the major powder co.'s to load some up. Wolf maybe was the only cheap game in town , back in the day- besides the more expensive ammo AA sold-pre-loaded. Maybe Bill A. could share the experiences he went thru-back in 2002-2003, dealing with all the powder giants. I'll bet it's worthy of a book deal.

[Captk]

You have a link for the extractor?
Thanks, Ken

[sneaky one]

I'm no computer whiz--- just type in- Google - DFender extractor upgrade. I forgot where I got mine from. It's about 12-15 bucks, well worth it. also- sand, or fine file the teeth off of the extactor=800 grit or finer. Keep the chamber clean too. Be willing to over oil things a bit, also. Wow, you're in Long Island NY- and an AR Grendel guy--yet they used to ban handguns there.... ?? What body part did you have to give up to own an AR there ? Hmmmm !!! You gonna use it for deer hunting, or sumptin else ? Is dis my cousin Guido from da bronx?

[Captk]

Not your cousin Guido but I think I ran into him one day at the range. We can own AR's, still under the AWB, no flash hider, bayo lugs etc. I'll google DFender extractor upgrade and see what pop's up. I was thinking maybe a hunt for Russian Boar on one of the preserves in PA or VT. It's my only choice unless I want to drive 800+ miles. I will be in FT Worth Texas in early May if someone want some help shooting some feral hogs.
Thanks, Ken

[Captk]

I ordered a DFender and HD extractor spring. I'll skip the Wolf ammo and stick with the hornady for now to see if the reliability increases.
Thanks, Ken

[fanofflyn]

I wonder if the key was that you said they changed the gas block. What kind, and can it be regulated? If so, is it adjusted properly?

[Captk]

I installed the DFendor and went back to the range. I shot 20 rnds of Hornady and had 2 rounds that did not go into the chamber completely. I pulled back 1" with the charging handle and both loaded and shot fine. I decided to remove the Tubb's weight I added to the bolt carrier to see what would happen. I shot another 15 rounds of Hornady with no issues. The next round failed to extract. The next 4 rounds were fine for a total of 40 rnds of Hornady. I had 12 rounds of Wolf left so I loaded those. The first 2 rounds jammed and the last 10 fired OK with 2 - 3 cases of the round not fully chambering, again, pull back on the charging handle 1" release and they loaded and fired.
No more wolf ammo! I am still not happy with the performance of the upper but it has gotten much better. When I cleaned the rifled after getting home I noticed a bunch of brass flakes where the bolt locks into the barrel. I am wondering if this is a symptom of what has been happening when the rounds don't fully chamber. Is it possible I need a stronger spring or maybe there are some sharp edges on the chamber hindering a smooth loading of the round? I did thoroughly clean the chamber again with an old bore brush and some steel wool, being careful to only hit the chamber walls before the neck. The walls of the chamber are now more polished and the neck is not smooth, lots of lines from where the neck was cut.
Is there a break in period where I need more rounds down the tube to smooth things out? i will take 1 more range trip, this time outdoors at 100 yds to see how accurate it is. I'll decide then if I keep it or sell it.
Thanks for all of the advice.
Ken

[Variable]

I installed the DFendor and went back to the range. I shot 20 rnds of Hornady and had 2 rounds that did not go into the chamber completely. I pulled back 1" with the charging handle and both loaded and shot fine. I decided to remove the Tubb's weight I added to the bolt carrier to see what would happen. I shot another 15 rounds of Hornady with no issues. The next round failed to extract. The next 4 rounds were fine for a total of 40 rnds of Hornady. I had 12 rounds of Wolf left so I loaded those. The first 2 rounds jammed and the last 10 fired OK with 2 - 3 cases of the round not fully chambering, again, pull back on the charging handle 1" release and they loaded and fired.
No more wolf ammo! I am still not happy with the performance of the upper but it has gotten much better. When I cleaned the rifled after getting home I noticed a bunch of brass flakes where the bolt locks into the barrel. I am wondering if this is a symptom of what has been happening when the rounds don't fully chamber. Is it possible I need a stronger spring or maybe there are some sharp edges on the chamber hindering a smooth loading of the round? I did thoroughly clean the chamber again with an old bore brush and some steel wool, being careful to only hit the chamber walls before the neck. The walls of the chamber are now more polished and the neck is not smooth, lots of lines from where the neck was cut.
Is there a break in period where I need more rounds down the tube to smooth things out? i will take 1 more range trip, this time outdoors at 100 yds to see how accurate it is. I'll decide then if I keep it or sell it.
Thanks for all of the advice.
Ken

If it were mine-- I'd be marking my rounds with a sharpie and indexing the marks straight up as they sit in the magazine. Then when I had a failure to feed I'd be taking the round out instead of continuing to chamber it. Examine said rounds and see what they look like. Do they have long gouges in them? If so, where? Do the marks correspond with the locking lugs on the barrel extension? If so, then your lugs are too sharp/burred and you need to deburr/smooth them out. Like "LRRPF52" calls his barrel extension "meltdown" procedure. He uses a dremel to polish out the sharp tool marks/edges that can gouge cases and put too much drag on the upper while feeding.

I sounds to me like your brass flakes are being carved off of your cases by a barrel extension with sharp edges. That would definitely cause a problem like you describe (if I'm reading you correctly).

[LRRPF52]

Almost everyone I know who had used the D-Fender has failure to feed issues because it often puts way too much tension on the extractor, and the extractor resists snapping over the rim of the case. You could also have an ejector that is too long, and needs to be trimmed. That could explain the shavings in the chamber area, in addition to a sharp extractor, but you said you already cleaned up the extractor with some emery cloth.

Without pictures of everything, or the rifle in-hand, it's hard to diagnose this one. Not knowing the maker of the barrel, or the build process leaves out some critical info as well.

Can you take and post pictures of your fired brass, the chamber, the ejction port area after a malfunction, etc. A long and edgy ejector will often prevent the cartridge from rising into alignment with the chamber, and cause the exact issue you describe-failure to chamber.

My 16" AA runs like a champ, and even feeds the 123gr crappy Wolf Soft Points. It has fed every light starting load, and hot load of various bullet shapes and weights I have run through it. It is a factory AA barrel/bolt combo.

[Captk]

I'll do a comparison of the other AR's ejectors and see if it looks too long compared to the others AR's. I was having the same fail to feed issues before I put the DFender in. Since installing it I only had 1 case get stuck in the chamber.

Thanks, Ken

[sneaky one]

Check the area where the bullet tip hits the feed ramp. Don't release the bolt-- hang on to it, follow along slowly, and watch the round as it's pushed out the mag. I had a pal video it so we could watch in super slo-mo. Verify that it hits center, or barely above center. I had to tweak the lips upward -at least .040 on every c-prod. mag. I own. I must have bought the friday - made @ 4:30 PM units.

[Tooreal]

CaptK,

I see you are selling your upper, don't do it brother! I had the same problem with one rifle that I'd gotten and it was doing the exact same thing, plus it was smoke stacking the brass part of the time too! I hate that you have spent so much time & money on this gun, but All you need is a (J&P Enterprises) Extra Heavy Rifle Length Buffer Spring and I guarantee you that it will work fine! If it doesn't I'll buy the spring from you. So this way you won't be out any more money! They cost $29.00 and it cured my problem and I'll bet you a JP Enterprises Heavy Recoil spring that it'll do the same for you or I'll pay you & you send it too me n

How does that sound bud? ;-) Give it a shot, ya got nothing to loose..
Send me an email and let me know what happens.
Eric

[LRRPF52]

There is one other factor I recently learned about from Bill A.:

Some barrel makers source the cheapest barrel extensions they can find, which is ok if you're building a 5.56 gun or something with a case diameter of a 5.56.

With larger-base cartridges, you need barrel extensions that don't vary beyond certain specs, especially the inner diameter of the teeth in the extension.

The reason is that during the heat-treating process after the teeth and feed ramps are broached, the extensions warp a bit, and can form an elyptical inner diameter that prevents the extractor from being able to snap over the cartridge, and causing lots of shearing of the brass case walls.

This became a headache with some barrels, even very high-end pipes that were threaded into low-cost extensions.

[Captk]

OK, I stopped the sale and will continue to try and resolve the problems with the upper. Up to now I had just taken the upper to an indoor range to function test. I decided to put a scope on and see what it could do at 100 yds. The first 2 shots formed 1 hole, the third shot was just below. I was surprised by what I saw so took a little more time for shots 4 - 10, 1 ragged hole. anyway this convinced me to try and get this fixed. I was very happy with the accuracy from the Hornady 123 gr ammo and upper.
I have ordered the J&P spring plus a new mag. I was wondering if I should also order a new AA extractor or a whole bolt since I am still getting brass flakes coming from the rims of the cases.
Thanks for the encouragement and help, Ken

Tried to post pic of target but having issues with photo bucket.