14.5 pin and weld - an experiences with it?

[lazyengineer]

Kind of interested in this in [6.5 Grendel], as a compromise of the minimum legal length one can possibly get, and still be a rifle. FAXON makes 14.5's with machined on brakes or flash hiders for a 1-piece 16" legal BBL; but only in 5.56 I think. Other options to try this?

[StoneHendge]

I bought the Faxon 14.5" pin and weld in Gunner profile with the welded on brake about 2 months ago. With a collapsible stock on it (aka Carolyn McCarthy's "the thing that goes up"), it's exactly one inch longer than my 12.5 inch Grendel "pistol' was with a Kaw valley linear comp and the Shockwave Blade "unpermanantly" screwed to a length that allowed me to somewhat comfortably place the "arm brace" against my er, um, arm. With the shoulder stock fully extended (which is where I like them), it's extremely quick to point. The brake doesn't do wonders - it does reduce recoil, but I find my sight picture jumping left when shooting off a bipod and a rear bag - so much so that an 8.5x11 target is out of my sight picture at 100 yards at 10x. But I can handle it a lot more comfortably than I can with a "pistol" braced against my er, um, arm. Accuracy is rack for mine. I didn't put any factory ammo through it because I'm not going to pay for factory 5.56 in this market, but I've got it doing about 1.5 MOA with 60 gr VMax's and H322 at Hodgdon max for .223 less 1 grain to account for the LC case (I figure that gives more than enough room to account for 5.56's extra 10k psi). I haven't chrono'd it but it's more than "enough". It does get hot quick - I wouldn't dump a 30 round mag in it unless I was forced to (I stop at 20 with it), but it does also cool quickly.

I like it so much that after about 2 weeks, I ordered 2 chambered 243 LBC blanks from BHW that I'm having custom made into light profile 13.7" barrels that will be at 16.1" with a VG6 6.5 Epsilon welded on (JP 5.56 light profile, actually - .64 to the block to allow for a JP Thermal dissipator and .75 after the block). That (those) barrel(s) will go on the lightweight set up that the Faxon is on and the Faxon will go on a more utilitarian mesh of parts I have accumulated over the years.

I'm an admitted barrel snob and am quite pleased with the Faxon purchase. It does everything I could ask a light, compact carbine to do without some of the discomfort and potential legal problems that a "pistol" might create if I were to "situationally" place the brace against a portion of my upper arm or pectoral region in a self defense scenario that could be perceived by a witness to be my shoulder. I'm still trying to decide between a red dot or a 1-6 for it, but I probably won't make that decision until the 243s are done.

[lazyengineer]

Thanks for the reply! I was mostly interested in Grendel flavor, but now that I think on it, your 5.56 flavored reply helps too! I'll update my OP to be more clear.

[Lastrites]

My 14.5" Lilja 6.5 is my favorite hunting rig, compact and very accurate, I can easily perceive the length difference bwtn it and my 16" and makes my 20" feel like it's obscenely long.

[lazyengineer]

Goodness, I can't find a 14.5" barrel anywhere. Any tips on where to get one? I can P&W myself, no problem there.

[A5BLASTER]

Goodness, I can't find a 14.5" barrel anywhere. Any tips on where to get one? I can P&W myself, no problem there.

Buy a 16 inch and cut it down.

[biodsl]

I have no experience with it, but I learned that LWRC offers a stock kit that will shave another inch off the length of a build.
https://www.lwrci.com/LWRCI-UCIW-Stock-Kit-_p_38.html

Chris Baker over at Lucky Gunner used it on a PDW build. He talks about it at 12:41
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq9AV0LAMdk

[lazyengineer]

Buy a 16 inch and cut it down.

Is it that easy? Don't you need a band-saw and laith to do all that? And is the gas-port the right size still?

I can grab a Faxon 16" Gunner; but it's malonited, which Ihear is really difficult to gut through at first. Andit's skinny enough, that I won't really have that muzzle-device flair and shelf at the end, don't I need that?

[PNWTargets]

5.56 14.5 pin and welded Faxon works good. 6.5 pin and welded Faxon would be rad.

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[Happy2Shoot]

Always been curious what the rules are on this?

Did the ATF say "just make sure the barrel is 16 inches" and people "pin and weld" muzzle devices to get there? Or did the ATF say this is what they need; a pin and a silver braze?

How short can you go? Can you "pin and weld" a 12" barrel to 16" with a slotted aluminum tube? What about a "pin and weld" bayonet?

Not sure what all the fuss is about from the ATF perspective? From what I have seen it takes about 60 seconds to cut a barrel down, and about 15 minutes to undo a "pin and weld" the right way. Not much protection from criminal intent.

Just curious.

[BluntForceTrauma]

I've always thought a 14.5 seemed like a lot of hassle for 1.5 inches. Figured either go 16 and forego the hassle or go 12 if you really want a short barrel.

What's the appeal of 14.5? (Better yet, 14.7, cuz then you can pin and weld a standard A2 to make 16-inch legal length.)

[worthen86ford]

I had a 10.5" pistol and currently have a couple 16" rifles. the appeal of a PW'd build for me is having the shortest barrel possible with a muzzle device without it being a "pistol" or SBR. I found i didn't care for the teeter totter legalities of braces and i really am not interested in paying $200 to have a registered firearm. having a muzzle device is important to me just because i rest the gun alot of the time on the muzzle device and i would be concerned with resting a bare muzzle on surfaces ruining the crown, for example a 16" without a device.

truthfully i do not think a PW'd is logically worth it over a 16", but a 14.5 mid length monster barrel would definitely fill a market share in budget oriented grendel builds. I would buy one anyway ...

[lazyengineer]

I've always thought a 14.5 seemed like a lot of hassle for 1.5 inches. Figured either go 16 and forego the hassle or go 12 if you really want a short barrel.


What's the appeal of 14.5? (Better yet, 14.7, cuz then you can pin and weld a standard A2 to make 16-inch legal length.)

The reality that the 12" option is about to go away, I imagine is a big one. Times are changing, and the likelyhood of the pistol brace still being called a pistol brace and not a stock 2 years from now, is pretty low.

So, 14.5" pin and weld pragmatially means only 2.5 more inches of barrel length. Which is less then half the delta change of going to a full 16" Barrel, so still light and handy, for the most part. And you can run a real stock now. Also, unlike 5.56, 12" ballisitics out of Grendel are actually pretty phenominal, with 1000 ft-lb hit out to 150 plus yards. And the incremental increase in terminal range with Grendel isn't that much with barrel length increase. The incremental perfomance jump going from 12 to 14.5, is a bigger jump than going from 14.5 to 16; and is still close to the handyness of a 12"

If you are a guy who markets and sell Grendel barrels, the dead market of the 14.5" (14.7) barrel, is about to change. If Faxon made one of their light GUNNER profile barrels with integrated 1-piece muzzle break for 16"; that's what I'd have on order right now. They don't, only in 5.56. And in 5.56, that extra 1.5"of barrel actually does make a notable difference in extending the terminal ballistics high-performance range considerably. But in Grendel, I definately want a 14.5 pin and weld light contour BBL.

[biodsl]

I like it so much that after about 2 weeks, I ordered 2 chambered 243 LBC blanks from BHW that I'm having custom made into light profile 13.7" barrels that will be at 16.1" with a VG6 6.5 Epsilon welded on (JP 5.56 light profile, actually - .64 to the block to allow for a JP Thermal dissipator and .75 after the block). That (those) barrel(s) will go on the lightweight set up that the Faxon is on and the Faxon will go on a more utilitarian mesh of parts I have accumulated over the years.

This is brilliant. Can't wait to hear and see more on this.

[BluntForceTrauma]

I'm warming up to the idea of a 14.7 light Grendel barrel. Finished a drawing this afternoon.

Is there a market?

[worthen86ford]

I’ll buy 2

[okiecat]

Ill take one. Gotta have a good brake too.

[D.Davis]

BFT, are you planning to do a 14.7" in 6mm ARC too.

[lazyengineer]

I'll take one. I'm on a several month wait-list for a 16" that I was going to cut down and P&W. That will be a PITA; as I don't really have machine tools for all that. I'd much rather a dedicated 14.x from you. If it comes pre-welded with a brake, even better - but not a hard requirement.

Requests and suggestions (if you are taking them)

1) Please keep the profile light. This is a stiffer/shorter barrel selected by those focusing on handyness as top priority. (forgive if that comes across as preachy)

2) If you don't have a pre-installed muzzle device, then please at least cut a channel running along the bottom of the threads, for the pin to drop into (drilling on malonite is no fun!)

3) If you do integrate a brake (not a requirement, but would be nice) - small and light is my request again. Most brakes are oversized. My intent was to run a BCM Gunfighter MOd 0 version; which I like as the small dimensions of an A2; looks like an A2, but the internal baffle/cone at the end acts as a mild brake. It notably reduces recoil pretty well, and does so without the unpleasant blast most brakes have. I have one on a 16" 5.56 now, and it's the only design I'll buy again as a general purpose muzzle device; if given the choice. They make a 7.62 version as well, but if you can home-make one on the same principle with a 6.5mm hole as part of a 6.5 Grendel 14.7 P&W; I would be all over that.

4) Bonus points if you can figure out how to do that at a smaller diameter than the barrel nut and gas-block. (which people do - no big deal there).

5) I get first dibs and will provide test data

[BluntForceTrauma]

What diameter bit would be used to cut this "channel" on the underside of the muzzle threads and what would be the length of the channel?

Bravo Company, for example, "dimples" their 14.5 stripped barrels. What should the bit diameter and dimple location be for a similar method on 65G?