I emailed Ken Johnson at Shooters World to see what he recommended for their Precision powder in the 6.5 Grendel and below is what he said. I probably won't mess with it until next spring but I do want to see how well it shoots.
Quote:Thanks for taking interest in Shooters World propellants! We have not as yet developed 6.5 Grendel data with Precision. BUT, you COULD use the starting load of Match Rifle or Varget, and substitute Precision in there at that same starting load.
The benefit of Precision is that IT VERY CLOSELY follows the starting and max loads of Varget. If you've got a starting load for Varget with the 6.5 Grendel, use it. Build the load slowly, until you start witnessing pressure signs. I'd anticipate your max load to be quite similar to that of Varget, when using Precision.
Been researching Shooters World Precision a bit. Density is where it seems to have a leg up on Varget. It would be interesting to see what weight fits in a Grendel case versus Varget if anyone has both. Or I could weigh a case with Varget and send the case along to someone who has Precision. I'd pay the price of stamp for that info.
I just checked with Precision on my Hornady brass-34.32gr and Lapua brass-34.5gr. I don't have any Starline clean right now. I funneled/trickled the powder to the top of the neck and did not do anything else to try and compress it. The cases have been resized with the shoulder bumped .002" and the case lengths were right at 1.510".
I know that this isn't the same case you are using but that should give you a ballpark figure maybe.
You cant get enough Varget into 6.5 Grendel to get much velocity with most bullets.
Alexander Arms tested a load under the 130gr Swift Scirocco using Varget-one of the slowest loads for that bullet along with N140.
There are so many powders common to .223 Rem and .308 Win. that are great in 6.5 Grendel, but Varget isnt one of them.
It will spit the bullets out no problem, but its just too bulky for its burn rate and the Grendel case.
If Shooters World Precision can fill the case better than Varget and has Vargets burn rate, then it should be able to get more velocity out of the Grendel.
NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO
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6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:
11-14-2020, 02:51 AM (This post was last modified: 11-14-2020, 02:54 AM by StoneHendge.)
I'll check tomorrow night (the powder stays sealed after the vodka's been poured) but given what I'm using in a Hornady case with Varget in 243 LBC that sounds promising.
52, Precision reportedly has the same temp sensitivity as Varget - that's where my interest lies if it's denser.
11-14-2020, 02:58 AM (This post was last modified: 11-14-2020, 03:10 AM by jasper2408.)
LRRPF52 Wrote:You cant get enough Varget into 6.5 Grendel to get much velocity with most bullets.
Alexander Arms tested a load under the 130gr Swift Scirocco using Varget-one of the slowest loads for that bullet along with N140.
There are so many powders common to .223 Rem and .308 Win. that are great in 6.5 Grendel, but Varget isnt one of them.
It will spit the bullets out no problem, but its just too bulky for its burn rate and the Grendel case.
If Shooters World Precision can fill the case better than Varget and has Vargets burn rate, then it should be able to get more velocity out of the Grendel.
I agree with you LRRPF53. I shot 10 powder charges from 26.1-27.9gr with Precision and I got slightly slower velocities with my 20" than the Hornady manual showed with an 18" AA AR with Varget. Not worth the effort in my opinion. I have decided to pass on Precision for the Grendel. It shoots great in my 5.56 and 6.5 Creemoor but not in my Grendel. Now I know why SW never explored this powder in the Grendel.
Edit: Stonehenge: Sorry I didn't see your post before I posted the above but I didn't get very good results that I thought was worth continuing to load this powder in the Grendel. By all means though please post your results so we can see what you actually get for velocities.
11-14-2020, 03:26 AM (This post was last modified: 11-14-2020, 03:39 AM by jasper2408.)
StoneHendge Wrote:Were you crunching at 27.9?
I used the Varget data from the Hornady manual and Hornady 123gr ELD-M seated to 2.260" with a Rem 7 1/2 primer and Hornady cases.
I actually loaded up to 28.9gr and it didn't start crunching until 28.3gr. The reason I stopped at 27.9gr was I got black carbon leaking around the primer with a very heavy ejector mark on the brass on that shot. I was using Hornady brass that has been shot 8 times but when I put the primers in all of the pockets were tight and non of them were loose that I noticed or I wouldn't have used the brass with a loose feel when inserting the primer.
I got spooked when I saw the ejector mark and leaky primer so I decided to be on the safe side and stop before I "blew my face off". Maybe I was a little too cautious and should have shot the next shot to see if it continued but I was using data that I had created out of thin air so I decided to quit shooting the rest of the loads.
I think there are better powders out there than Varget or Precision. I have used SW Tactical Rifle and Match Rifle and they work so well that even attempting to work up a load with Precision seems a waste. As I have stated in the past, Match Rifle has become my go-to powder for the Grendel but I'm finding more and more uses for it. Superb 308 loadings in 168 and 175 grain, 7-08 140 grain loads as well. ~Riuma
riuma Wrote:I think there are better powders out there than Varget or Precision. I have used SW Tactical Rifle and Match Rifle and they work so well that even attempting to work up a load with Precision seems a waste. As I have stated in the past, Match Rifle has become my go-to powder for the Grendel but I'm finding more and more uses for it. Superb 308 loadings in 168 and 175 grain, 7-08 140 grain loads as well. ~Riuma
I agree Riuma.
I do really like Precision in my 6.5 Creedmoor though.
I was able to fit 32.9 gr of Varget in a sized Hornady case at 1.510. So a volume of Varget weighs 96% of an equivalent volume of Precision. Or Precision is ~4% denser.
This is a Hornady max charge for a 123 of 28.9 grains of Varget in that case:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]17132[/ATTACH]
28.9 grains of Precision (which assumes the powders perform identically) will have the volume of 27.7 grains of Varget. This is 27.7 grains of Varget in that case. There's a visible difference, but it still going to be crunching significantly:
grayfox Wrote:riuma, what sort of bullets, loads and MVs are you getting with your SW match?
Not that there's any out there, but for data it should be worth seeing.
Sorry! I glassed right over this. I'm loading 31.8 grains of Match under a 120 Pro Hunter, Seated to 2.275 and crimped with a LEE FCD. Primers are S&B.
Last time I chronoed the 24" CZ I was averaging about 2680 fps and "better than I can hold" accuracy. I have a target in my office that has four, five shot groups fired on the little tabs of paper left on the target backer when people rip down their targets. Tiny groups. Kills deer like the hand of God.
My CZ Varmint won't let me seat these bullets longer than 2.175. I dropped the load half a grain and carried on. I haven't chronographed these but they are very accurate -on par with the Standard weight CZ.
Fr target I shoot 123 Nosler Custom Comps over 30 grains. Forget the OAL but I have used them on steel to 650. Again, very accurate...~Riuma.
jasper2408 Wrote:I went digging around for any other load data for Varget with either the same size bullets or smaller size bullets.
Sierra is showing a max of 27.7gr and only getting 2400fps from a 24" barrel with a 123gr HPBT. 28.0gr max for their 120gr bullets at 2450fps.
They also have data for their 100gr HP with a max of 29.7gr getting 2650fps out of a 24" barrel.
I think I will stick with Match or Tactical for now.
Thanks for the measurements. I definitely won't be pursuing it in Grendel but it looks like Precision will be right around optimal case fill at max for 105s in 6mm ARC when the time comes.
I have stocked up with several lbs. each of MATCH and TACTICAL last spring but haven't tried either yet. both look to be great powders for the Grendel as well as my 223 WYLDE and 5.56
chambered carbines.
01-01-2022, 01:58 AM (This post was last modified: 01-01-2022, 02:09 AM by StoneHendge.)
I hesitate to post this. Over the year since this thread was last active, it seems that many others have figured out what I have. Shooters World Precision is better than Varget. Its actually become harder to find and the last time PV had it, it blew out the door at $44/lb - more than the $40 they got for Varget around the same time. But I've got a decent stash and would like to use Greywyrm in my AR match since it's a clone on the 6.5 CM I use for PRS and the style shifts between going back and forth between the 18 lb CM and my sub 8 lb ARC probably don't enhance my game. Temp stability is very important for me, so options are limited and ball powders aren't a consideration in my climate.
I started using Hornady Varget data for 123s. Case is a 9x Lapua, GM205M, 123 gr Scenar at a COAL of 2.25" which is 0.02" off the lands. Chamber on the 22" JP barrel is tight. I usually max out 0.6-0.8 gr below everyone else for a given velocity for a combo. 2500 is where I'm comfortable with AR Comp and where the "node" is. High 2400s is where I max with H4895 and XBR, with both feeling a bit uncomfortable approaching 2500.
Hornady max for Varget is 28.9. I loaded up 15 rounds with 25.7 to 28.5 gr of SWP in 0.2 gr increments. 28.5 was just above the brass' neck shoulder junction on pouring and just below the junction with 10 taps on the bench. Yes it's compressed, but there isn't a crunch. I used different aiming points for the first, mid and last 5. With Magnetto strapped on, no group was under MOA and the last 4 made a ragged hole with velocities at:
28.1:2417;
28.3:2424;
28.5:2432.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]18546[/ATTACH]
All brass and primers looked fine. This had me encouraged with the accuracy across charge weight and the velocity steps tightening up near the top. I loaded up 10 each at 28.1, 28.3, and 28.5. One target each with 5 shots with no Magnetto on the left and 5 shots with Magnetto strapped on in the right. Velocity/SD/ES. The upper left shot in the left group was a cold bore shot, but when my former sniper instructor said "There is no such thing as a cold bore shot - only a cold shooter", I believe him, so I won't throw it out of the group calculations.
The group with the cold shooter shot is right at an inch; the smallest is 0.41". The average of all 6 is 0.76" and if I add in the 3 groups from the ladder, the average of all nine 5 shot groups is 0.74". That's not cherry picking and throwing out called pushed and pulled shots, flyers, etc.- that's everything! All were shot off a concrete bench with an Atlas Bipod and the surface is a bit slick and makes it harder to load than dirt; rear bag was a waxed Whiskey Charlie Max which is Wiebad's large "fortune cookie". All charges were from a CM1500 - I drop 0.2 gr low and then use a hand trickler.
Yeah, velocity is about 50 - 75 fps below what some other stick powders might get, but SWP is in Varget territory for temp sensitivity and 75 fps is less than 50 yards. I'll note that there is likely room from a pressure standpoint for more powder and I could probably fit a bit more in the case, but 2432 is fine by me given the accuracy so there's no need to get greedy. I'm going to run with 28.5 - I like that the 5 shot average was the same as the single shot at 2432 a few days earlier.
And while I'm busting myths, I've never annealed that 9 times fired Lapua brass.
And to make perhaps a true apples to apples comparison between Grendel and ARC for target shooting given comparable powders: I'm doing 2430 out of my 16" ARC with Varget and 105 gr RDFs. The G7 of the 123 Scenar is 0.263 while it's .280 for the 105 RDF. So the ARC has less drop and windage is slightly better. With the difference being 6" of barrel.
