Textron Systems NGSW Rifle and LMG

[stanc]

I'm not nor have been military, but I'm gonna guess larger number of carried rounds for a smaller cartridge is gonna be a better friend to the soldier than penetration from a larger cartridge at 800 meters.

Try to have both, but I'd err on the side of quantity.

The "quantity over quality" argument is what resulted in 5.56x45 replacing 7.62x51 in squad weapons, and it certainly proved superior. Against unarmored opponents like the Viet Cong and other insurgents, anyway.

However, the Army is now concerned with the potential for going up against foes that wear hard body armor comparable to what US soldiers have.

Modern Russian and Chinese ceramic armor can stop multiple hits from 5.56mm: https://www.facebook.com/inrangetv/video...028602876/

If you have to do a mag dump to get an incapacitating hit with 5.56 NATO versus needing only ONE shot with 6.8 NGSW, which is really the better for quantity?

[Bill Alexander]

Been very heavily involved in testing both the rifle and the machine gun for this. Both systems are extremely light weight and low recoiling using a combination of long/constant recoil and an efficient suppressor. The ammunition has a high energy density which minimizes the contribution to recoil of the propellant mass as well as keeping the size and weight down. It is quite incredible to hold up a belt of 200 rounds and see how light it actually is.

The caliber decision has many facets, not all of which I agree with. Primarily the driver is to defeat the proposed red team target but I feel that they are definitely using the "sledge hammer to crack a nut" approach. This has some basis in minimizing the risk associated with this one part of the program. Regardless it has not increased the carried kills the overall system can offer unless the hit probability can be increased which is doubtful from the side of the projectile and launch tube. Thus the emphasis is on targeting systems to assist the soldier in making the shot.

[VASCAR2]

Thanks for the insight Bill A., good to see you on the forum!

[Lemonaid]

They should loan one of these to Double Naught Spy for a few hog hunts and use his vids to show how great they are. Must watch T.V.!

[Double Naught Spy]

Don't tease me, Lemonaid!

[grayfox]

Yeah. Even sneak in ahead of time and put some armor on the piggies... to see it all blow up on screen!!!

Seriously, Bill thanks for giving some much-needed back-story details.

[BluntForceTrauma]

They should loan one of these to Double Naught Spy for a few hog hunts and use his vids to show how great they are. Must watch T.V.!

Just use a .270 WSM for equivalent effects?

Cheers, Bill!

[BluntForceTrauma]

When I say that something is "fundamentally the wrong concept," I mean that it's doomed to failure, and no amount of government funds and wishful thinking can save it.

That does NOT mean we won't have operational weapons and ammunition produced by some clever engineers.

We will.

I'm particularly enthused by SIG's offerings. SIG's weapons look sound, as does their cartridge with brass walls/stainless heads. They might also do well to partner with True Velocity cartridges with their polymer walls/stainless heads.

However, a few years down the road, someone will ask — like the child in "The Emperor's New Clothes — "Why is this system so bulky? Doesn't make sense." And it will be relegated to DMR use and the search for a more compact, yet capable, round will begin anew.

[stanc]

The caliber decision has many facets, not all of which I agree with. Primarily the driver is to defeat the proposed red team target but I feel that they are definitely using the "sledge hammer to crack a nut" approach. This has some basis in minimizing the risk associated with this one part of the program. Regardless it has not increased the carried kills the overall system can offer unless the hit probability can be increased which is doubtful from the side of the projectile and launch tube. Thus the emphasis is on targeting systems to assist the soldier in making the shot.

https://soldiersystems.net/2020/07/07/us...rototypes/

[stanc]

[video=youtube;3GC94SexkBg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GC94SexkBg[/video]

[stanc]

Video clips of what appear to be soldier testing:

[video=youtube;5SGySgHP2wU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SGySgHP2wU[/video]

[montana]

If I were king, I would also make these weapons and ammunition available to competition shooters. Create a course suitable for the firearms and ballistic requirement goals and let them at it. With considerable financial rewards for the top shooters, "they would have smarter and better firearms and ammunition" created by private entrepreneurs in no time.

[A5BLASTER]

If I were king, I would also make these weapons and ammunition available to competition shooters. Create a course suitable for the firearms and ballistic requirement goals and let them at it. With considerable financial rewards for the top shooters, "they would have smarter and better firearms and ammunition" created by private entrepreneurs in no time.

Yep and the first thing they would do is get rid of the 6.8 cal bullet that is in the case lol.

[stanc]

Yep and the first thing they would do is get rid of the 6.8 cal bullet that is in the case lol.

Why would they want to get rid of the 6.8 bullet? It's a bee-yoo-tee-ful bullet!

[A5BLASTER]

Well because me and the other member were discussing some uses outside of the military. So ye young put that round and weapon in the hand of competition shooters and the first thing they are going to want is something other then a 6.8 cal bullet in the case.

Our idea of a beautiful bullet is completely diffrent it seems.

[Double Naught Spy]

https://soldiersystems.net/2020/07/07/us...rototypes/

Gotta wonder how long the batteries last in the active systems.

[stanc]

Our idea of a beautiful bullet is completely diffrent it seems.

You really dislike the 6.8 bullet? Wow. Even the 6.5 Grendel forum administrator was impressed with it.

That sleek, nasty bullet on the left is the new 6.8 NGSW projo? Whoa. NOW I'm a believer!

[BluntForceTrauma]

Don't be silly, Stan. We all know a bullet with that beautiful form factor can be designed for any caliber.

And, if the military listens to me, they WILL do it in a smaller caliber.

I'd suggest requiring body armor penetration only out to 300 meters. Maybe 500. Design your cartridge based on that.

[stanc]

Don't be silly, Stan. We all know a bullet with that beautiful form factor can be designed for any caliber.

Of course it can. All I said is that is that it's a beautiful bullet. You clearly agree. A5B does not.

Our idea of a beautiful bullet is completely diffrent it seems.

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And, if the military listens to me, they WILL do it in a smaller caliber.

I'd suggest requiring body armor penetration only out to 300 meters. Maybe 500. Design your cartridge based on that.

I doubt that the Army will go smaller. They appear to be taking the same approach with development of infantry squad weapons as they did with tank main guns.

[biodsl]

If I were king, I would also make these weapons and ammunition available to competition shooters. Create a course suitable for the firearms and ballistic requirement goals and let them at it. With considerable financial rewards for the top shooters, "they would have smarter and better firearms and ammunition" created by private entrepreneurs in no time.

Truth to power.