< 1/2 MOA 6.5 Grendel Barrel?

[Dack Janiels]

Hey everyone, I’m building a 20” upper and going back and forth between 223 and 6.6 G. I like the ballistics and punch the Grendel adds. Every time I think 223 I think back to this thread below, and have finally talked myself into exploring 6.5 Grendel if I can get one as accurate as LRRPF52, a 5 shot group one ragged hole. I know people have shot sub MOA with ballistic and Faxon, it if I go 6.5 it’s gonna be top of the line. It would also need to have a FSB, but it could be a set screw. Thanks



The thread seen https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/-ARCHI...26/?page=1 here

[Klem]

Dack,

I would choose a barrel made by an Olympic team provider for the best of the best.

Bartlein, Kreiger or Lilja...no one else. Not even Shilen, and certainly not Faxon.

If this is for an AR15 then don't even think that ragged holes will be the average. You get them occasionally and when that happens people tend to post them as examples of what the barrel is capable of. But they are not the average. A really good barrel commissioned from PF or built yourself is between 0.5 - 1MOA average. Closer to 0.5 if you have all the rest of the fruit; a top quality scope, trigger, floating barrel, rest and ammo the gun likes.

Think of the 6.5G as a .223 on steroids, with heavier and higher BC bullets. Another 200metres of effective range. Half way between a .223 and Creedmore. Really pleasant to shoot.

What's with the FSB?

[Bobjones]

Bartlein, Kreiger or Lilja...no one else. Not even Shilen, and certainly not Faxon.

Klem, what about Proof Research?

[Klem]

Klem, what about Proof Research?

I am aware they exist but I have never seen or used one. They have two offerings in Grendel by the looks. Their signature carbon fibre barrel ($920) and a traditional stainless ($520).

I wouldn't use a carbon fibre coated barrel on any AR regardless of the price. $920 just punctuates that.

If Proof supplies national and international shooting teams with stainless barrels then sure, add them to the list. If it's just local disciplines and a few individual shooters then unfortunately Proof represents more of a risk than the three brands mentioned.

[mdram]

heres a list of what professional shooters use
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2019/01/0...-barrel-2/

[Bobjones]

Thanks for the info. I am looking for a lighter weight barrel and the fact that a few of the precision shooters use carbon barrels for hunting is encouraging. I've had a 20 inch carbon barrel from Proof on order for a while.

[Bobjones]

The targets are great too, thx

[Bigs28]

Hunting doesn't require your expectations of this build.

[HuntTXhogs]

Hunting doesn't require your expectations of this build.

And that’s okay because he isn’t the original poster...

[Bigs28]

My bad. Your right. Let me adjust.

Hunting doesn't require "op's" expectations of this build.

[Dack Janiels]

Dack,

I would choose a barrel made by an Olympic team provider for the best of the best.

Bartlein, Kreiger or Lilja...no one else. Not even Shilen, and certainly not Faxon.

If this is for an AR15 then don't even think that ragged holes will be the average. You get them occasionally and when that happens people tend to post them as examples of what the barrel is capable of. But they are not the average. A really good barrel commissioned from PF or built yourself is between 0.5 - 1MOA average. Closer to 0.5 if you have all the rest of the fruit; a top quality scope, trigger, floating barrel, rest and ammo the gun likes.

Think of the 6.5G as a .223 on steroids, with heavier and higher BC bullets. Another 200metres of effective range. Half way between a .223 and Creedmore. Really pleasant to shoot.

What's with the FSB?

Hey man, thanks for the suggestions! Don’t worry I don’t expect one ragged hole average, just the ability to do that when all the stars aline for me, but after getting a 12.5” Lilja 6.5 G, I want a longer build that I can use for most shooting inside of 1k.. This is going on a clone 20” build, and the original had a FSB.

[StoneHendge]

Dack, I have a 24" Proof 6.5 Creedmore CF barrel that can put holes in holes in the right hands. It is the only carbon fiber barrel I would buy, however, after having heating problems and some major POI shifts with a BSF. Without otherwise focussing on weight in that AR10 build and using Aero kits and the same stock, the Proof 6.5 CM weighs about the same as my 22" Grendel with a mid contour JP. The Proof CM barrel actually cools down a tad bit faster than the JP which does have the aluminum cooling fins (after burning 35% more powder!). I've found the effects of the carbon fiber dampening and stiffness to be pretty significant. It shoots most factory ammo extremely well and the peak off nodes during load development were never much worse than a little over MOA with H4350 and several different bullets. It might be mental, but I also feel that the CF dampening helps with recoil management - something I didn't get with the BSF given their design. I can also get 1/2 and a little better out of the JP, but the Proof is more accurate. My next barrel will be either a JP or a Proof and I agonize back and forth over whether the advantages are worth a couple of hundred more $. That comparison does come easier in calibers with longer barrel life's such as Grendel and .223. I have certainly been conserving the barrel on the CM since it's probably only good for 2500 rounds. I was real skeptical when I bought the Proof 3 years ago and agonized for a month, but I am glad I took the plunge.

[dammitman]

do i understand that a proof research 6.5 creedmore barrel is only good for great accuracy to 2500 rounds?

[biodsl]

This is going on a clone 20” build, and the original had a FSB.

I'd look right here. 20" Lilja AR740. https://riflebarrels.com/wp-content/uploads/ar740.pdf The gas block section is 1.9" so you can have your front sight.

[Klem]

do i understand that a proof research 6.5 creedmore barrel is only good for great accuracy to 2500 rounds?

When you say "only", if we're talking about peak accuracy from the best barrels then 2.5K rds is actually a good lifetime for any barrel. Competitive shooters in the best-barrels category think nothing of swapping out barrels once a year. Maybe taking the old barrel and getting it cut shorter and recrowned for a hunting rig (you can't do that with carbon fibre). Maybe donating it to the gunsmith so they can do the same. Or just throwing it away. I have 2 replaced spare barrels in the safe right now. I should really throw them out but they still shoot well enough for a Family day.

At this level, barrels are consumable items. Having an action that you can screw different barrels in and out of by yourself is helpful. More of a pain to do in an AR; pulling it apart and back together again with different barrels, and of course if you glue it then you are pretty much stuck with the barrel till the end (pun intended). I get the impression guys tend to have multiple AR's, fully rigged with average priced scopes instead of keeping one super expensive scope on one billet receiver and swapping out the barrels, like a bolt gun.

[StoneHendge]

do i understand that a proof research 6.5 creedmore barrel is only good for great accuracy to 2500 rounds?

A 6.5 Creedmore barrel is expected to start degrading at 2500. Overbore cartridges erode the throats rather quickly. Proof claims to get longer barrel life due to their cooling aspects and I guess I'll see. All of their other claims have held for me but I always remain skeptical until I see otherwise. To put that in perspective, though, a 6 CM is estimated at around 2k while calibers like 300 WinMag, 338 LM and all of the WSMs only have about 1k in them. I think 6.5 Grendel is around 5-6k while .223 and .308 are beyond that. I had a .223 barrel that I used for varminting and long practice sessions that I retired at 8k. It was still shooting slightly under MOA, but that's not minute of prairie dog when you get out a few hundred yards.

[Klem]

By once a year I mean 1.5K rounds (.223) - heavy profile Kriegers, TruFlite's, Broughton's, Archers, MADDCO's, for F-Class (Bartlein didn't exist back then).

Sure, those barrels will keep on shooting well but it all depends on your definition of accuracy. Truth be known we were only really competitive during the first 300 rounds. Guys called it the 'Golden Age' of a barrel.

I take back my earlier claim to never seen a Proof. I was watching an Accuracy International AXMC in 300WM being zeroed at 100M not long ago. It had a carbon fibre barrel with brake and I assumed until now the barrel was proprietary to AI. On their website it states Proof barrels are used. They were having all sorts of trouble trying to get a group but to be fair it could have been anything, including the two dudes who are more sales-reps than shooters. It wasn't the true potential of that gun for sure, so no claim or disrespect to Proof.

[Bobke]

I have Bartlein, Lilja, JP, Wilson Combat, an AA and two Satern cut rifled barrels. Easily the most consistent are the Bartlein and Satern cut barrels (not their Liberty brand). Others are not slouches by any means, just require a bit more effort to get the type groups the cut rifled barrels produce more readily, given I’m up to the task. Wouldn’t kick a Krieger to the curb either. Barrels are the heart of your build-don’t hold back from allocating proper funds and gunsmith to the task.

[DVDVC]

I have Bartlein, Lilja, JP, Wilson Combat, an AA and two Satern cut rifled barrels. Easily the most consistent are the Bartlein and Satern cut barrels (not their Liberty brand). Others are not slouches by any means, just require a bit more effort to get the type groups the cut rifled barrels produce more readily, given I’m up to the task. Wouldn’t kick a Krieger to the curb either. Barrels are the heart of your build-don’t hold back from allocating proper funds and gunsmith to the task.

Seems to be a recurring theme around here!

[grayfox]

It is what imparts your intentions to the bullet. Without it the bullet doesn't fly.
'Nuff said.