Velocities?

[danm]

So just watched Kotaboys Youtube on why 6ARC is better than 6.5G and commented that his 18"G velocities are WAY low and definitely skewed his whole ballistic sight data...

What says the Hoard?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLqP5lglgKo

[kcb38]

Great minds... That's exactly why I just checked in here, lol.

[bruceleroy]

He is so far off on what everyone else should expect that it really seems he is being paid to state those charts. His Grendel and 308 numbers are ridiculously low in what seems an obvious attempt to influence more for the 6 ARC.

[Nordy55]

So 108 gr 6mm vs 123 gr 6.5 bullet.. maybe try the 107 TMK vs the 108 eld... almost apples to apples with gr wt in similar specs..

[biodsl]

2370 for a 123 grain out of an 18" barrel does seem slow. Even American Gunner shoots 2430 out of my AA 16". My handload of 31.2 grains of CFE shoots 2430 to 2530 depending on ambient temperature.

[danm]

Full Disclosure, I DO intend to transition my 18"G DMR build to 6ARC only because it's my oldest barrel and the long range drop and wind deflection are appealing

[Bfglowkee]

Marketing and influencing 101: Take the lowest numbers of the product you are wanting to bring down and compare it to the highest numbers of your new shiny product. Its not "lying" since those numbers are published, your just comparing them in a specific light.
Now what they did is take the most common weight the Grendel shoots ( 123 )but take one of the slowest projectiles they could find load data for and post the lightest charge from their reloading data. Then they took the shiny new ARC and their target projectile to use and grabbed the highest, safe velocity they got in their tests.
Its a common slight of hand that we see everywhere and in these current times....all over our news. Smart shooters will see it for what it is and really the ARC either grabs your interest or it doesn't. We will have a large influx of ARC vs Grendel or any other AR 15 platform and we can see what hard data looks like from a avg shooters angle.
Still will use the Grendel for bigger game and if/when I grab an ARC, will probably keep it for smaller stuff and fun at distances. But then again I will probably build it as a Bolt rifle firs cause I am silly like that.

[imaguy3]

My handload of 31.2 grains of CFE shoots 2430 to 2530 depending on ambient temperature.

What kind of temp swings are we talking?!

My load with 8208xbr stays within 25fps from 50* to 100*

[Grendelshooter]

What kind of temp swings are we talking?!

My load with 8208xbr stays within 25fps from 50* to 100*

That’s 8208. CFE/TAC/2520 etc (ball powder) are much more temp sensitive.

[biodsl]

What kind of temp swings are we talking?!

My load with 8208xbr stays within 25fps from 50* to 100*

A 45 degree swing. I suspect this is why some folks don't appreciate CFE. I've contemplated developing a 'summer' load but never have. Most of my shooting is done in the winter months.

[imaguy3]

That’s 8208. CFE/TAC/2520 etc (ball powder) are much more temp sensitive.

yeah, I just didn't realize it'd be that much.

[danm]

Marketing and influencing 101: Take the lowest numbers of the product you are wanting to bring down and compare it to the highest numbers of your new shiny product. Its not "lying" since those numbers are published, your just comparing them in a specific light.
Now what they did is take the most common weight the Grendel shoots ( 123 )but take one of the slowest projectiles they could find load data for and post the lightest charge from their reloading data. Then they took the shiny new ARC and their target projectile to use and grabbed the highest, safe velocity they got in their tests.
Its a common slight of hand that we see everywhere and in these current times....all over our news. Smart shooters will see it for what it is and really the ARC either grabs your interest or it doesn't. We will have a large influx of ARC vs Grendel or any other AR 15 platform and we can see what hard data looks like from a avg shooters angle.
Still will use the Grendel for bigger game and if/when I grab an ARC, will probably keep it for smaller stuff and fun at distances. But then again I will probably build it as a Bolt rifle firs cause I am silly like that.

Great post, pretty much what I was surmising!

[ErikS]

I called him out on it in the comments and clearly stated he was obviously selling the ARC. In his response to he seemed to take offense, but acknowledged his number was low.

His video was not a valid comparison at all and comes across as a bogus Hornady advertisement.

[danm]

I called him out on it in the comments and clearly stated he was obviously selling the ARC. In his response to he seemed to take offense, but acknowledged his number was low.

His video was not a valid comparison at all and comes across as a bogus Hornady advertisement.

Yeah inputting those low velocities for the Grendel completely negates his whole premise! I do think 6ARC will have it's place for long range but my shorties (11.5 and 12.5) especially will stay Grendel for life

[A5BLASTER]

Yeah inputting those low velocities for the Grendel completely negates his whole premise! I do think 6ARC will have it's place for long range but my shorties (11.5 and 12.5) especially will stay Grendel for life

That was my thinking as well. Already have a long barreled bolt grendel and 2 handloads that can reach 1000 yards very well.

So I was going to do a 12 or 12.5 inch ARC, then I got to looking at some real life speeds and looking at bullet options for hunting and I quickly came to the realisation that ARC won't do anything better for hunting, then what my 12 inch grendel can do now.

So I'm out the ARC game all together.

[danm]

That was my thinking as well. Already have a long barreled bolt grendel and 2 handloads that can reach 1000 yards very well.

So I was going to do a 12 or 12.5 inch ARC, then I got to looking at some real life speeds and looking at bullet options for hunting and I quickly came to the realisation that ARC won't do anything better for hunting, then what my 12 inch grendel can do now.

So I'm out the ARC game all together.

Yeah I'm just gonna do a barrel swap on my 18" DMR build and see how much difference the ARC makes at 600+.... If I don't like it, easy swap back and sell the barrel

[jmkhenka]

Load up a 100 grain ELD-M instead of the 123 in grendel, and everything improves.
100 grain: v0 of 850mps, 36 mil drop @ 500 meters (scenar 100)
123 grain: v0 of 740mps, 46mil drop @ 500 meters (scenar 123)

100 grain has more energy all the way up to 300-320 meters.

What makes a bullet better?!

And for hunting a grendel beats the 6mm.. Unless the 6mm is in a larger caliber like 6XC.. but in the powder limited cases both have, the 6mm is more balanced overall.

Velocity is not always a good thing, despite what they manufacturers call for.

[Bfglowkee]

Also keep in mind this about the mindset of consumers: They buy so they wont ever have to buy again.
Sounds silly I know but in the gun world its easy to see. Folks are always talking about " one gun/caliber to do it all....hunt, target shoot, run & gun and hell be ready to sniper Fidel Castro should the president call " OK so that last one is probably not relevant anymore but you get the drift. Folks want to have just one that is the Leatherman's utility rifle/caliber. I gave up on that notion and realized I buy cause MERICA, that's why. Seriously, the "do-it-all" hype is a very powerful slogan to get those people that have been on the fence about buying their first rifle/gun. It eases their conscious so they can rationalize "pulling the trigger" and buying. It also happens to work on the avid enthusiast since well we do love shiny new toys! The Grendel is a great and versatile round that is so much fun to shoot on both bolt and semi auto platforms. The advertisement just does it wrong in many cases and tends to "make the other look like worse so ours looks better" vs " These are the advantages to ours, while minor at times and you can decide if those differences are worth it to you"
I am gonna dip my toe in the ARC world mainly because I need a 6mm offering that wont chew through barrels like my 6mm CM. Lets see if the hype is real.