Reloder 15 M118 LR sniper round

[Lemonaid]

I saw this on Alliant's web site:
Reloder 15
Smokeless medium rifle powder

The best all-around medium speed rifle powder providing excellent .223 and .308 caliber performance. Selected as the powder for U.S. Military's M118 special ball long range sniper round.

Broad caliber range
Consistent in all temperatures
High velocity varmint loads

My questions are as RL 15 has a reputation of being temperature sensitive, wouldn't a different powder be a better choice in a sniper round? Or is the sensitive thing not really that big a deal? Or is RL 15 not very sensitive and just got a incorrect bad reputation?
(I really like RL 15 by the way)

[LR1955]

I saw this on Alliant's web site:
Reloder 15
Smokeless medium rifle powder

The best all-around medium speed rifle powder providing excellent .223 and .308 caliber performance. Selected as the powder for U.S. Military's M118 special ball long range sniper round.

Broad caliber range
Consistent in all temperatures
High velocity varmint loads

My questions are as RL 15 has a reputation of being temperature sensitive, wouldn't a different powder be a better choice in a sniper round? Or is the sensitive thing not really that big a deal? Or is RL 15 not very sensitive and just got a incorrect bad reputation?
(I really like RL 15 by the way)

LA:

Both not very sensitive and not a big deal. I think they mean it is consistent for any temperature, not necessarily that there is no velocity change between temperatures.

A good powder that I used to use exclusively when shooting the .308 competitively. Switched to Varget and stayed with Varget. I think my reason was because Varget metered better than Reloader 15 but can't really remember.

I heated up and cooled down some 118 LR a number of years ago and shot the rounds over a chronograph to see a velocity difference between ammo that was cooled down to about 45 and heated up to something like 110. About a 40 fps difference if I remember right. Insignificant when considering the variables involved in military field firing at unknown distances in the weather and under time constraints.

LR55

[Grendelshooter]

Isn’t that the genesis of AR Comp? A temp stable RL 15?
I think I read that somewhere.

[Lemonaid]

Isn’t that the genesis of AR Comp? A temp stable RL 15?
I think I read that somewhere.

I think you are correct! I found an article below. Good news for me, I'll try AR Comp when my RL 15 runs out.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011...-revealed/

[grayfox]

That's what I found also, in the article (that I had) they also said that ARC as a result, got a little faster than the RE15 is...
so each one obviously use its own load data workups.

[tdbru]

there are a lot of powders in the burn range to support 175gr. match bullets in the 308 Win i.e. M118LR. as you can imagine capturing an ammunition component contract for the US military can result in large volume production. and not a little prestige too. another one of the newer powders in that burn rate range that i'm working with is IMR-4166 which is turning in some pretty low SDs, is supposed to be quite temp stable, and has a decoppering agent. RL-16 is supposed to have those features as well, but i haven't had the time, particularly now, to give that one a try yet. i'd like to try 4166 with some of the 130gr. bullets, but will have to wait until range time can resume. if i recall the Navy contract for their 308 Sniper ammo featured IMR-4064. if the Grendel had a scooch more case capacity i think it'd fall squarely in the middle of the powder burn rate that the 308 with heavy match bullets requires. as it is, varget, 4064, RL15 and RL16 etc. are on the slow side of the burn rate selection for the Grendel i think. maybe more usable with heavier bullets in the Grendel (130+) and for sure too slow for the 100gr. and less bullets for peak velocity. but if that's what you have on hand, many cases that's what gets used. i saved this excerpt from a web search, but forgot to keep the source reference too, so i apologize for that : "The result, when it was standardized as the MK316 Mod 0 cartridge, was a Federal modified case (Drawing number 8347636), Federal match primer, Sierra 175 grain Matchking and 41.75 grains of IMR 4064 powder. According to the published sources this load will produce a muzzle velocity of 2640 fps out of a 24 inch barrel. The load as produced by Federal is claimed to produce under 1 MOA out to 1000 yards from an appropriate rifle. With the IMR powder the shift in velocity is only 20 fps from 0 to 100 Deg C, with the Standard deviation in velocity over 40 rounds being 15 fps or less." anyway, these powders for the 308 Win with the heavier match bullets seem just a wee bit too slow for the Grendel with 123-130 gr. bullets to me, and definitely with bullets < 120gr. that is if you're after peak velocity. i'm sure if you decide you like varget with 90gr. TNT it will go bang. might be quite accurate, but you'll likely be giving up some fps to a more appropriate burn rate for that weight bullet.
-tdbru

[A5BLASTER]

there are a lot of powders in the burn range to support 175gr. match bullets in the 308 Win i.e. M118LR. as you can imagine capturing an ammunition component contract for the US military can result in large volume production. and not a little prestige too. another one of the newer powders in that burn rate range that i'm working with is IMR-4166 which is turning in some pretty low SDs, is supposed to be quite temp stable, and has a decoppering agent. RL-16 is supposed to have those features as well, but i haven't had the time, particularly now, to give that one a try yet. i'd like to try 4166 with some of the 130gr. bullets, but will have to wait until range time can resume. if i recall the Navy contract for their 308 Sniper ammo featured IMR-4064. if the Grendel had a scooch more case capacity i think it'd fall squarely in the middle of the powder burn rate that the 308 with heavy match bullets requires. as it is, varget, 4064, RL15 and RL16 etc. are on the slow side of the burn rate selection for the Grendel i think. maybe more usable with heavier bullets in the Grendel (130+) and for sure too slow for the 100gr. and less bullets for peak velocity. but if that's what you have on hand, many cases that's what gets used. i saved this excerpt from a web search, but forgot to keep the source reference too, so i apologize for that : "The result, when it was standardized as the MK316 Mod 0 cartridge, was a Federal modified case (Drawing number 8347636), Federal match primer, Sierra 175 grain Matchking and 41.75 grains of IMR 4064 powder. According to the published sources this load will produce a muzzle velocity of 2640 fps out of a 24 inch barrel. The load as produced by Federal is claimed to produce under 1 MOA out to 1000 yards from an appropriate rifle. With the IMR powder the shift in velocity is only 20 fps from 0 to 100 Deg C, with the Standard deviation in velocity over 40 rounds being 15 fps or less." anyway, these powders for the 308 Win with the heavier match bullets seem just a wee bit too slow for the Grendel with 123-130 gr. bullets to me, and definitely with bullets < 120gr. that is if you're after peak velocity. i'm sure if you decide you like varget with 90gr. TNT it will go bang. might be quite accurate, but you'll likely be giving up some fps to a more appropriate burn rate for that weight bullet.
-tdbru

Not to be rude but could you please break up your thoughts into a more easly read and followed pattern of typing.

Your post looks like gibberish and honestly I gave up trying to extract data from it after the first 3 lines.

[tdbru]

not rude at all A5B. appreciate the feed back.
thanks,
-tdbru

[Happy2Shoot]

there are a lot of powders in the burn range to support 175gr. match bullets in the 308 Win i.e. M118LR.

as you can imagine capturing an ammunition component contract for the US military can result in large volume production, and prestige also.

another one of the newer powders in that burn rate range that i'm working with is IMR-4166 which is turning in some pretty low SDs, is supposed to be quite temp stable, and has a decoppering agent. RL-16 is supposed to have those features as well, but i haven't had the time, particularly now, to give that one a try yet. i'd like to try 4166 with some of the 130gr. bullets, but will have to wait until range time can resume.

if i recall the Navy contract for their 308 Sniper ammo featured IMR-4064.

if the Grendel had a scooch more case capacity i think it'd fall squarely in the middle of the powder burn rate that the 308 with heavy match bullets requires. as it is, varget, 4064, RL15 and RL16 etc. are on the slow side of the burn rate selection for the Grendel i think. maybe more usable with heavier bullets in the Grendel (130+) and for sure too slow for the 100gr. and less bullets for peak velocity. but if that's what you have on hand, many cases that's what gets used.

i saved this excerpt from a web search, but forgot to keep the source reference too, so i apologize for that : "The result, when it was standardized as the MK316 Mod 0 cartridge, was a Federal modified case (Drawing number 8347636), Federal match primer, Sierra 175 grain Matchking and 41.75 grains of IMR 4064 powder. According to the published sources this load will produce a muzzle velocity of 2640 fps out of a 24 inch barrel. The load as produced by Federal is claimed to produce under 1 MOA out to 1000 yards from an appropriate rifle. With the IMR powder the shift in velocity is only 20 fps from 0 to 100 Deg C, with the Standard deviation in velocity over 40 rounds being 15 fps or less."

anyway, these powders for the 308 Win with the heavier match bullets seem just a wee bit too slow for the Grendel with 123-130 gr. bullets to me, and definitely with bullets < 120gr. that is if you're after peak velocity. i'm sure if you decide you like varget with 90gr. TNT it will go bang. might be quite accurate, but you'll likely be giving up some fps to a more appropriate burn rate for that weight bullet.
-tdbru

[riuma]

I shoot that 175 grn load with 41.75 (.8) IMR 4064. I have used it to 1100 yards with minute of shooter accuracy. It is my go-to when shooting steel with a 308.

I have been considering running some Nosler custom Competition 140's from the Grendel over SW Match Rifle (my go to powder for the Grendel) and fired from my CZ Varmint. I'm guessing I can clip 2400 fps from that long barrel.~Riuma

[Lemonaid]

Riuma, I was considering buying some Shooters World Match but saw a bad review about it leaving a carbon deposit or stain or something on the brass that had to be buffed off. In your experience does SWM leave any un-normal deposits on the brass?

[riuma]

Nope. No problem that I've noted. I deprime the brass and toss them into an US cleaner.

When i started using it in the Grendel, SW had exactly ONE, 123 grain load for it. Now there data from 120 to 140 grain. I've been running it in Grendel for over a year but, in fairness, that has been in bolt guns. No experience with gas guns. I get the highest velocities and best accuracy in my CZ's using this powder but my 'target/off hand" load is the Nosler Custom Competition 123 grain over 30 grains. My hunting loads are doing just south of 2700 fps. These target loads get 2550 (iirc) and are accurate enough to shoot the staples out of the corners of the target. I have several thousand of these bullets so I use them for practice. My hunting loads using 120 grain Sierra Pro Hunters work as well at -10F and they do at +40F.

But I digress... Try a pound of it. Works VERY well in the 308 as well. My girl friend's 168 grain target loads are loaded with this powder.... which it probably why I have 26 pounds of it on hand. Her next loads will be using this with 175's.~Riuma

[Lemonaid]

Thanks for the info riuma, I'll try a pound when I can find any.

[riuma]

Not common on the shelf in my region, either. Keep an eye on Midsouth and GRAF. Every once in a while they have "free-hazmat" sales. I have bought most of my SW powders (I shoot four of them) in 8 pound kegs just to make it worth while. I'm trying to get the local trading post to carry it...~Riuma

[Old Bob]

GRAF has both 1 pound & 8 pound cans of SW Match. Midsouth just has 1 pound cans. Alas, not on sale or free hazmat at either site.

Anyone use SW Tactical? The SW manual has 6.5 Grendel loads with this powder.

[bruceleroy]

RL15 used to be the powder. I've shot some current production stuff and it is not the same. Closer to 4064 in texture/consistency etc. I wish it was still RL15. I loved that ammo. Super consistent and very predictable in almost all weather, for me.

[Cotay]

RL15 used to be the powder. I've shot some current production stuff and it is not the same. Closer to 4064 in texture/consistency etc. I wish it was still RL15. I loved that ammo. Super consistent and very predictable in almost all weather, for me.

When did you notice this change? I only load 150gr pills for .308 (for gas and bolt guns) and I exclusively use RL15. The last time I stocked up was two years ago.

[riuma]

GRAF has both 1 pound & 8 pound cans of SW Match. Midsouth just has 1 pound cans. Alas, not on sale or free hazmat at either site.

Anyone use SW Tactical? The SW manual has 6.5 Grendel loads with this powder.

I do, or have. Excellent accuracy but never ran it for speeds in my CZ. Match Rifle is just my absolute go-to fuel so far.~Riuma

[diggler1833]

Re-15 was used at one point, but if I remember correctly, a change was made at least a decade ago with the Mk 316 Special Ball round to 41.75gr IMR-4064. I'm sure I can still look it up, but I'm about to have to go feed the cows.

Re-15, IMR-4064, and Varget are all so close that if your rifle will shoot one of them, you can usually develop a good load with another.

[bruceleroy]

I've now got data for 8208XBR, Varget, 4064, and RE15 that are all a 99% match in charge weights and ballistic outcom.
I am stoked since it seems these rotate in availability.