6mmARC Military Application

[JDub]

Well I'm gonna put an end to all this bickering by developing a 6mm sabot round for the Grendel. Then we can all have our cake and eat it too! (Does that even make sense?)

[m796rider]

Well I'm gonna put an end to all this bickering by developing a 6mm sabot round for the Grendel. Then we can all have our cake and eat it too! (Does that even make sense?)

Clearly that won't work unless the sabot sleeves have a G1 BC of at least .550, fly in close formation with the penetrator, and arrive at the target to neatly fly through the hole created by the penetrator then instantly turn into spinning evisceration machines.

[hill37]

Going back to mags, does anyone know who makes Barrett's 30rd 6.8mags? Has anyone ever tried running Grendel though them? They may have modified them and that's what the Gov. gets.

[A5BLASTER]

Going back to mags, does anyone know who makes Barrett's 30rd 6.8mags? Has anyone ever tried running Grendel though them? They may have modified them and that's what the Gov. gets.

I have seen it posted several times already that the rec7 rifles were supplied with 24 round Alexander arms stamped elander grendel mags.

[hill37]

Sorry about that . I missed that.

[hill37]

About mags. Found this in comments on Gununiversity article. https://gununiversity.com/6mm-arc-review/#comment-438 Nice looking 15rd mags.

[LR1955]

Clearly that won't work unless the sabot sleeves have a G1 BC of at least .550, fly in close formation with the penetrator, and arrive at the target to neatly fly through the hole created by the penetrator then instantly turn into spinning evisceration machines.

Sorry but not quite.

Sabot's petal at the muzzle so the design is deliberately intended for the sabot to open up as fast as possible. Some Sabots are cone shaped with the opening pointing towards the muzzle to enhance their ability to petal perfectly and uniformly every shot. If any part of the SABOT stays with the projo when the SABOT discards, the projo will not be accurate. Flash suppressors and breaks are not ideal and unless the sabot is designed right, can be pretty dangerous. Problem with sabots is slipping of the projo inside the sabot. In other words, the sabot spins but the projo doesn't. Thus the use of fin stabilized projo's. The various SLAP rounds had big problems with in bore sabot failure too. Not even sure if any are left in the inventory.

I did shoot some 5.56 SABOT ammo a long time ago at a test. Really neat little things that worked fine but were like a pencil lead with a little tip and a blob sort of thing at the tail to keep it going somewhat straight. They really chewed up things when they hit because the sabot bent or upset wildly when it hit the slightest thing. Not sure how lethal they were but they worked.

I still think someone makes SABOTs for sporting rifles where you can shoot something like a 6mm from a .30 caliber case. Problems are the same as I describe. Slipping of the projo, inconsistent release of the SABOT and so on.

LR55

[m796rider]

Sorry but not quite.

Sabot's petal at the muzzle so the design is deliberately intended for the sabot to open up as fast as possible. Some Sabots are cone shaped with the opening pointing towards the muzzle to enhance their ability to petal perfectly and uniformly every shot. If any part of the SABOT stays with the projo when the SABOT discards, the projo will not be accurate. Flash suppressors and breaks are not ideal and unless the sabot is designed right, can be pretty dangerous. Problem with sabots is slipping of the projo inside the sabot. In other words, the sabot spins but the projo doesn't. Thus the use of fin stabilized projo's. The various SLAP rounds had big problems with in bore sabot failure too. Not even sure if any are left in the inventory.

I did shoot some 5.56 SABOT ammo a long time ago at a test. Really neat little things that worked fine but were like a pencil lead with a little tip and a blob sort of thing at the tail to keep it going somewhat straight. They really chewed up things when they hit because the sabot bent or upset wildly when it hit the slightest thing. Not sure how lethal they were but they worked.

I still think someone makes SABOTs for sporting rifles where you can shoot something like a 6mm from a .30 caliber case. Problems are the same as I describe. Slipping of the projo, inconsistent release of the SABOT and so on.

LR55

While my scenario would be aces, I was being flippant...

[kmon]

Sorry but not quite.

Sabot's petal at the muzzle so the design is deliberately intended for the sabot to open up as fast as possible. Some Sabots are cone shaped with the opening pointing towards the muzzle to enhance their ability to petal perfectly and uniformly every shot. If any part of the SABOT stays with the projo when the SABOT discards, the projo will not be accurate. Flash suppressors and breaks are not ideal and unless the sabot is designed right, can be pretty dangerous. Problem with sabots is slipping of the projo inside the sabot. In other words, the sabot spins but the projo doesn't. Thus the use of fin stabilized projo's. The various SLAP rounds had big problems with in bore sabot failure too. Not even sure if any are left in the inventory.

I did shoot some 5.56 SABOT ammo a long time ago at a test. Really neat little things that worked fine but were like a pencil lead with a little tip and a blob sort of thing at the tail to keep it going somewhat straight. They really chewed up things when they hit because the sabot bent or upset wildly when it hit the slightest thing. Not sure how lethal they were but they worked.

I still think someone makes SABOTs for sporting rifles where you can shoot something like a 6mm from a .30 caliber case. Problems are the same as I describe. Slipping of the projo, inconsistent release of the SABOT and so on.

LR55

Remington loaded 22 cal 55gr soft point bullets in some 30 caliber offerings 30-30, 308 and 30-06. Accuracy off those loads was about like their other factory offerings. 30-30 load velocity was about lik 223 loads, 30-06 initial velocity was advertised as 4080fps. Not sure but for a while the sabots were available for reloading, worked with a guy that used them for some fun loads in his 30 carbine

[biodsl]

Remington Accelerator. Discontinued. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1002026387

[Sinclair]

My neighbor used them in his 30-30 to shoot varmints. Seemed to be more accurate than regular 30-30 bullets! However, IIRC law enforcement objected because there was no rifling marks on the projectile, hence hard to match up with the weapon. Another good idea down the tube.

[kmon]

My neighbor used them in his 30-30 to shoot varmints. Seemed to be more accurate than regular 30-30 bullets! However, IIRC law enforcement objected because there was no rifling marks on the projectile, hence hard to match up with the weapon. Another good idea down the tube.

It was something like that. You can still get the sabots and dies to put the bullet in the Sabot from EABCO for loading your own

https://www.eabco.com/remington-accelerator-sabots.html

[bruceleroy]

Wording is key when speaking about "adoption" by the military. Since there was no contract out for, and I cant seem to find anything currently being requested, for the 6 ARC then it is most likely Crane looking to try something new. This does not mean the military is using it. Crane usually supplies the Seal teams as they are a dept of the Navy function. A full adoption would mean less powder, again, and less bullets on the shelf until they send production to LC. I also do NOT believe for one second that this round was developed at the request of this mysterious unit. The government doesnt work like that on the white side. The black side of acquisitions is different and I wont speculate.
This is sort of like when SOCOM was allowed to order 6.5 Creedmoor and everyone was blown away by the "adoption" of the caliber. They never adopted it and almost nobody has seen it. Just because you are allowed to order something because of a memeo doesnt mean command will allow it.

[m796rider]

Wording is key when speaking about "adoption" by the military. Since there was no contract out for, and I cant seem to find anything currently being requested, for the 6 ARC then it is most likely Crane looking to try something new. This does not mean the military is using it. Crane usually supplies the Seal teams as they are a dept of the Navy function. A full adoption would mean less powder, again, and less bullets on the shelf until they send production to LC. I also do NOT believe for one second that this round was developed at the request of this mysterious unit. The government doesnt work like that on the white side. The black side of acquisitions is different and I wont speculate.
This is sort of like when SOCOM was allowed to order 6.5 Creedmoor and everyone was blown away by the "adoption" of the caliber. They never adopted it and almost nobody has seen it. Just because you are allowed to order something because of a memeo doesnt mean command will allow it.

Why LC? Black Hills still sole-sources Mk262 Mod1 and there is no doubt this was adopted by the military (albeit for SOCOM mostly).

[bruceleroy]

Why LC? Black Hills still sole-sources Mk262 Mod1 and there is no doubt this was adopted by the military (albeit for SOCOM mostly).

Understand where you are coming from on the BH stuff but the new stuff is LC, at least that Ive seen. A lot of BH is still in the system but the last 262 I shot was all LC. If they still have BH make it that would explain how LC can maintain precision quality ammo. They arent exactly known for their precise work in that mega factory. Just bulk consistency.
The main take away is throwing around that the military adopted this round. That has not happened. Same for 6.5 Creedmoor, 300 PRC, 6.8 SPC, and 300 BLK.

[m796rider]

Understand where you are coming from on the BH stuff but the new stuff is LC, at least that Ive seen. A lot of BH is still in the system but the last 262 I shot was all LC. If they still have BH make it that would explain how LC can maintain precision quality ammo. They arent exactly known for their precise work in that mega factory. Just bulk consistency.
The main take away is throwing around that the military adopted this round. That has not happened. Same for 6.5 Creedmoor, 300 PRC, 6.8 SPC, and 300 BLK.

BH uses LC brass but BH definitely still makes Mk262 Mod1.

Are you trying to source a POR for 6ARC?

[bruceleroy]

I tried to but couldnt find one. I admit Im not the most efficient at it.

[stanc]

Apparently, the new 6mmARC — officially released today, June 3, 2020 — was originally developed at the request of an unnamed, but well-known, U.S. military unit.

You may be pleased to know that interest in the cartridge is expanding. According to a credible source, French special forces are buying 6mm ARC rifles "for operational evaluation." https://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/...g=7519.921

[hill37]

stanc, I saw on the Machine Gun Armory site page that their 6.8 links would work with 7.62x39. Can't get a link but it is mentioned in the 7.62x39 belt entry. I wonder if any one has tried them with Grendel base Cartridges?

[stanc]

stanc, I saw on the Machine Gun Armory site page that their 6.8 links would work with 7.62x39. Can't get a link but it is mentioned in the 7.62x39 belt entry. I wonder if any one has tried them with Grendel base Cartridges?

AFAIK, nobody has tried using M68 links with 6 ARC or 6.5 Grendel.

FYI: http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...post172916

ETA: http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...post174818