Loaded 160gr Hornady RN today

[bigblock]

I'm a big fan of high sectional density bullets for killing the large bodied deer up here in Maine. I'm also a fan of the round nose profile for its "better" performance through incidental brush/branch strikes that often occur when stalking through the thick woods up here. I recall reading how those 2 things are better optimized with moderate velocities as well. So I had a box of these 160gr Hornady Round Nose for my Creedmoor and I needed something to occupy my mind today besides work. I love trying unusual combinations of things and it struck me, why not try to launch these through the Grendel. I have an obsurdly accurate 16", Triad 3R rifling, midlength/midweight barrel made by Harrison Beane of AR Performance. I ran some numbers through Quickload and hit the reloading bench. I ended up with the following load:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]16044[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]16045[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]16046[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]16047[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]16048[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]16049[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]16050[/ATTACH]
USUAL DISCLAIMER: The combination of components I used worked safely in MY rifle. I am presenting the results of MY efforts to develop a load in MY rifle. YOUR rifle is not the same as MINE. Any attempt to use MY data for YOUR rifle should be worked up through the SOP for load development. There is no guarantee MY load will be safe in YOUR rifle otherwise.

Hornady brass, 30.1gr Reloder 17, Rem 7.5 primer, 160gr Hornady RN #2640, 2.290" COL.
MV avg = 2232fps; SD = 3.1 (4 rounds); accuracy = roughly 3/4 moa (had new scope to zero + wanted gel test data to determine if worth pursuing further = answer was definite "yes!". Accuracy testing soon...)

Gel data: view = entrance right/exit left; muzzle velocity @ 10feet = 2233fps; Clear-Gel Block placed at 101 lasered yards; Penetration: Passed through 18" of gel and came to rest through a couple layers of a backing made of a folded tarp; Permanent cavity: started expansion ~0.5", ~1.25" at its widest at ~7", fragmentation started ~11", ~17" long in total.

Recovered bullet: weighed 120.6gr; 0.490" at its widest point of mushroom.

Environmental data: 60deg F, 54% RH, 550' ASL

I'll admit, I was shocked by not only the velocity I got from the 16" barrel, but by the performance of the bullet at 100 yards. It wasn't a "marginal" result at all and was in fact absolutely perfect!

If I have time tomorrow I hope to get some accuracy data.

BB

ETA: environmental data, rifling correction, perm cavity details

[sundowner]

Very interesting .

[Jimla]

If you have a AR with a gas system, Reloder 17 may not be the best choice. I have read that the special pressure curve is so slow and constant that in a AR the pressure is still increasing while going down the AR gas system tubes. You will not see Reloder 17 used in reloading manuals for AR loads because of this problem. For Bolt action Reloder 17 is great.

[Mitdr774]

I have been tempted to try these in my Howa. From what I recall when I ran it through QL I should be able to comfortably get into the 2200 FPS range. If my memory is correct that is 100 FPS below what the Hornady book calls for a max velocity in the M96 6.5x55.

[jmkhenka]

I have been tempted to try these in my Howa. From what I recall when I ran it through QL I should be able to comfortably get into the 2200 FPS range. If my memory is correct that is 100 FPS below what the Hornady book calls for a max velocity in the M96 6.5x55.

atleast in my howa mini, the COAL would be so short as to make loads like this impossible, i estimate 2.086 inches total COAL - 53mm or even shorter. Thats 5 mm shorter then OP.

[iNheRchOnieS]

What’s the jump or jam?

Just looking at your last picture, I don’t think they would chamber in anything I have, bolt or semi.

[Mitdr774]

atleast in my howa mini, the COAL would be so short as to make loads like this impossible, i estimate 2.086 inches total COAL - 53mm or even shorter. Thats 5 mm shorter then OP.

In my rifle, max COAL is 2.425". Magazine length is 2.330". Per QL and the information I had to put in a 2.300" COAL and 27.4gr RL-17 leaves me with 2160 FPS and a chamber pressure of 42k PSI (+10% burn rate variation puts it at just under 51k PSI). If burn rate is what the software has then my theoretical mac load is 29.2gr for 2293 fps at just under 51k PSI. If I push pressure over 55k I should be able to get over 2350 fps. Again, these are theoretical values that are untested and not a suggestion. I have not tried any of these yet though. QL has been wrong before on velocity so I dont know how accurate the numbers it gave me are.

Hornady lists that bullet with a usable velocity range of 2000-2900 fps. Based on past requests for information for minimum expansion velocities, I would expect a minimum impact velocity of around 1800-1900 fps to get any kind of expansion.

[VASCAR2]

Your post reminds of W D M Bell the great African hunter who used a 6.5x54 Mannlicher–Schoenauer bolt action to take many African game including elephants. VihtaVuori has load data for their 156 grain Mega bullet in 6.5 Grendel. I know forum member experimented with the 160 grain RN SP trying to get a suitable sub sonic load but I don’t recall anyone actually using that bullet hunting (out of a 6.5 Grendel). Your velocities are not that far off of the 6.5x54 M/S velocities.

[mel]

If you have a AR with a gas system, Reloder 17 may not be the best choice. I have read that the special pressure curve is so slow and constant that in a AR the pressure is still increasing while going down the AR gas system tubes. You will not see Reloder 17 used in reloading manuals for AR loads because of this problem. For Bolt action Reloder 17 is great.

i use r17 in my ar-10/6.5 creed works great for me

[Jimla]

i use r17 in my ar-10/6.5 creed works great for me

I am a big fan of Reloder 17, one of my favorite 7mm-08 powders. Wanted to use it with my Grendel because quickload listed it as the best performing powder but I could not find load data, so I search a AR15 site and found out it was causing other AR-15 gas tubes to break and others explain why, which seemed to make since. AR-10 may be OK, they may be stronger than AR-15 gas system. Or the others reporting the problem could of had low quality tubes.

[bigblock]

If you have a AR with a gas system, Reloder 17 may not be the best choice. I have read that the special pressure curve is so slow and constant that in a AR the pressure is still increasing while going down the AR gas system tubes. You will not see Reloder 17 used in reloading manuals for AR loads because of this problem. For Bolt action Reloder 17 is great.

I usually record my gas port diameters but I forgot on this barrel. I can say that the rifle cycled fine with a non-adjustable gas block with the brass coming out at 3 o'clock which is where I time most of gas rifles. The only timing mitigation was the carbine lower this was fired from has an H buffer. I’m also not seeing any extractor strain on the case head or extr/ej swiping, which is usually the case with with latent pressure (and/or overpressure). Here is the predicted gas curve via QL. I’m thinking its pretty close based on the previous.



As someone else noted, QL is predictive model that isn't failsafe, but the actual evidence I've seen so far hasn't tripped any wires for me yet.

[bigblock]

What’s the jump or jam?

Just looking at your last picture, I don’t think they would chamber in anything I have, bolt or semi.

0.175" jump, max OAL of 2.465

Pic of chamber test sitting on Hornady OAL gauge

[bigblock]

Your post reminds of W D M Bell the great African hunter who used a 6.5x54 Mannlicher–Schoenauer bolt action to take many African game including elephants. VihtaVuori has load data for their 156 grain Mega bullet in 6.5 Grendel. I know forum member experimented with the 160 grain RN SP trying to get a suitable sub sonic load but I don’t recall anyone actually using that bullet hunting (out of a 6.5 Grendel). Your velocities are not that far off of the 6.5x54 M/S velocities.

I was thinking 6.5×52mm Carcano myself. Lord knows the infamously amazing penetration one of those 162gr RN did at 2170'ish FPS in Dallas TX... through neck, through seat 3 feet away, through chest #2, through wrist, stop in thigh... it's a poignant reference, but illustrative.

[bigblock]

I am a big fan of Reloder 17, one of my favorite 7mm-08 powders. Wanted to use it with my Grendel because quickload listed it as the best performing powder but I could not find load data, so I search a AR15 site and found out it was causing other AR-15 gas tubes to break and others explain why, which seemed to make since. AR-10 may be OK, they may be stronger than AR-15 gas system. Or the others reporting the problem could of had low quality tubes.

I also use it for 220gr RN's in 308 where it works REAL nice there too. I just started experimenting with it in 7-08 and got pulled into something else. It did look very promising as I recall. I did notice the brass is HOT though. Also noted some pretty hard carbon in the throat on a 308 though that had seen a number of rounds with it. I wonder what the round count was w/ RL17 these "exploding gas tubes". Never heard of the issue...

[bigblock]

In my rifle, max COAL is 2.425". Magazine length is 2.330". Per QL and the information I had to put in a 2.300" COAL and 27.4gr RL-17 leaves me with 2160 FPS and a chamber pressure of 42k PSI (+10% burn rate variation puts it at just under 51k PSI). If burn rate is what the software has then my theoretical mac load is 29.2gr for 2293 fps at just under 51k PSI. If I push pressure over 55k I should be able to get over 2350 fps. Again, these are theoretical values that are untested and not a suggestion. I have not tried any of these yet though. QL has been wrong before on velocity so I dont know how accurate the numbers it gave me are.

Hornady lists that bullet with a usable velocity range of 2000-2900 fps. Based on past requests for information for minimum expansion velocities, I would expect a minimum impact velocity of around 1800-1900 fps to get any kind of expansion.

My calculator shows the gel impact round had ~1950fps at 100 yards w/ a MV of 2233fps. The degree of decay of the bullet suggests to me it wasn't even close to the velocity performance threshold. FWIW, here's one that I dug out of the soft sand berm behind the target (1/8" thick luan backer).

[bigblock]

Here's today's hasty 100yd accuracy trial. Yesterday's testing was with new 0x brass. This was with 1x brass (yesterday's). It appears it's sitting right on the edge of a node. It needs a little charge or seating tweak. I think it has promise

[iNheRchOnieS]

0.175" jump, max OAL of 2.465

Pic of chamber test sitting on Hornady OAL gauge

Thanks.

With that bullet profile “2.465” OAL is amazing. If you don’t mind, what gun are you using? Has it been modified?

[Mitdr774]

If my memory is correct, the bullet starts a gradual taper right at the cannelure. It might be a little in front of it though. Either way, it is enough of a taper to allow the use of such a long RN bullet without having to stuff it all the way into the case. From what I recall it seats about as far into the case in my 6.5 Grendel as it does in my 6.5x55 and the Swede has the original throating for the 156gr RN military ammunition.

[A5BLASTER]

Thanks.

With that bullet profile “2.465” OAL is amazing. If you don’t mind, what gun are you using? Has it been modified?

2.465 coal is where it contacts the lands in his barrel. He is loading it at 2.295 coal.

[iNheRchOnieS]

2.465 coal is where it contacts the lands in his barrel. He is loading it at 2.295 coal.

Yes, I know. And it’s actually 2.290 col