Online and locally availability of some of the better temperature resistant powders is lacking. A LGS has H322 and Benchmark so Im wondering if I should pick some up. My gun is an 18 using 100-129gr bullets for huntin deer and hogs.
I know these dont produce the highest velocities so Im concerned about whether my bullets will expand enough. My shots usually range from 40-100 yards.
Also, Im new to reloading, are powder shortages( varget, H4350, H4895, etc.) common this time of year or is something else goin on? Thanks.
I've not seen a lot of data or usage of H322 with those bullet wts, Benchmark yes some. What about 8208Xbr, or AR comp?
For up to 100 yds the 6.5 bullets should have plenty of knockdown for deer. Even with my 16" I'm getting 1250 ft-lb at 100 yds, and this is for a 100 gr Nosler BT. Starting MV is around 2425 for 120 class and 2600 for 100 class pills. For the 123 Sst, starting 2425, at 100 yds it's still 2270 ft/s and 1400 ft-lb energy. This one is good out to 250 yds.
I'm using my 16" as comparison b/c for 18" usually higher MV but using other, slower-MV powders should still be comparable.
If there is 8208Xbr or Ar comp, they have a bit of temp stability, but even with ball powders like H335, would it make that much difference unless you have some sub-zero temps? Might be some loss but still potent at 100 yds.
Powder shortages are b/c they are usually batch-run vice continually cranked out, so at times some versions can get scarce. When I buy I try to get 2-3# of same lot # at a time, for my favorites. Some guys will do the 4-8 lb jugs.
"Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"
My 22" Howa Mini drives the 123 SST to a 5 shot average of 2499 FPS with Benchmark and produces some very small groups. I have a great dislike for how plastic tipped bullets perform, but am willing to try the 123 SST in a Grendel since it is a lower velocity cartridge.
03-09-2020, 07:30 PM (This post was last modified: 03-09-2020, 09:06 PM by Harpoon1.)
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WVB4 Wrote:Online and locally availability of some of the better temperature resistant powders is lacking. A LGS has H322 and Benchmark so Im wondering if I should pick some up. My gun is an 18 using 100-129gr bullets for huntin deer and hogs.
I know these dont produce the highest velocities so Im concerned about whether my bullets will expand enough.My shots usually range from 40-100 yards. Also, Im new to reloading, are powder shortages( varget, H4350, H4895, etc.) common this time of year or is something else goin on? Thanks.
Stopped being concerned, at that range, it shouldnt be a problem.
Having said that, consider the Speer 90 TNT with H322 or Benchmark. One of our regular posters Double Naught Spy (DNS) has probably killed more hogs than the rest of the forum combined. He gets after them! Literally over 1000 hogs, and more than a couple of hundred of those, with the 90 TNT out of his AR platform @2800 FPS. Its forgiving bullet, plentiful and cheap.
LRRPF52 Wrote:Hodgdon's has plenty of data for H322 for 85-123gr, but it starts to become a bit fast of a powder once you get above the 107gr SMK.
It's one of the fastest speed-generating powders for 100gr.
Benchmark is more ideal for the lighter bullets as well.
Lots of data for them in the Grendel Handbooks.
Thanks for the response. I do have the handbooks and they are very helpful, but most of the data for those powders was using a 24" bbl. I did buy a pound of the H322 and may get some Benchmark as well. If nothing else I can use them in my 5.56. I'm planning to order some 100gr BT so I guess I just need to get to the range and check velocities from my rifle. Thanks again.
grayfox Wrote:I've not seen a lot of data or usage of H322 with those bullet wts, Benchmark yes some. What about 8208Xbr, or AR comp?
For up to 100 yds the 6.5 bullets should have plenty of knockdown for deer. Even with my 16" I'm getting 1250 ft-lb at 100 yds, and this is for a 100 gr Nosler BT. Starting MV is around 2425 for 120 class and 2600 for 100 class pills. For the 123 Sst, starting 2425, at 100 yds it's still 2270 ft/s and 1400 ft-lb energy. This one is good out to 250 yds.
I'm using my 16" as comparison b/c for 18" usually higher MV but using other, slower-MV powders should still be comparable.
If there is 8208Xbr or Ar comp, they have a bit of temp stability, but even with ball powders like H335, would it make that much difference unless you have some sub-zero temps? Might be some loss but still potent at 100 yds.
Powder shortages are b/c they are usually batch-run vice continually cranked out, so at times some versions can get scarce. When I buy I try to get 2-3# of same lot # at a time, for my favorites. Some guys will do the 4-8 lb jugs.
Thanks for your response. I do have several powders on hand ( CFE 223, LVR, BLC2, AR Comp, H414, and IMR 4064), but I went ahead and bought some H322 as well. Most of my powder is temperature sensitive so that's why I'm interested in h322 and benchmark. Everything I've read says AR comp is pretty good, but I haven't tried it yet.
I hunt in the south where temps in deer season may swing from 30s in the morning to 60-70 by the afternoon so that's why I'd like to replace cfe and lvr. I've killed a few deer using factory 123gr sst, so I know how well they can perform. Now that I'm reloading I'm lookin to try a bunch of different stuff before next season. I think the next bullet I try will be the 100gr BT. Volume 2 of the handbook shows pictures of expansion at different velocities and it looks like a promising option. Thanks again for your thoughts.
One other nice thing in the handbooks is that chart of MV and barrel lengths... You can find the 24" MV and then estimate down to your 16, 18, 20, 22" or whatever length. Gives you an idea of what to expect.
Hornady's published loads are for an 18" length barrel. Most mfrs do use the 24" but it gives you an idea of where your bbl might be.
"Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"
03-11-2020, 12:29 PM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2020, 12:31 PM by WVB4.)
Harpoon1 Wrote:[/COLOR]
Stopped being concerned, at that range, it shouldnt be a problem.
Having said that, consider the Speer 90 TNT with H322 or Benchmark. One of our regular posters Double Naught Spy (DNS) has probably killed more hogs than the rest of the forum combined. He gets after them! Literally over 1000 hogs, and more than a couple of hundred of those, with the 90 TNT out of his AR platform @2800 FPS. Its forgiving bullet, plentiful and cheap.
Thanks for your response. I do, at times, tend to over think things. However, I work too hard, and opportunities are not always plentiful to get a good buck in front of me. That's why I'm concerned whether my bullet will blow up on impact, or will it act like a fmj. I'm sure most bullets designed for hunting will work, but the powders I listed have lower velocities for 123 and 129gr bullets especially with my shorter bbl.
I watched the video of the 90gr tnt, but I'd need to do further research regarding use on deer. I know hogs tend to be tougher than deer and while I hate to wound any animal or cause suffering, nobody cries when a hog gets away. A big buck is a different story all together. Having multiple shots in an open field on hogs is different than shooting deer in thick southern woods where one shot is usually all you get. Are there any videos or articles you'd recommend of further testing of the 90gr TNT? Thanks again for your thoughts and I hope this post doesn't come across in the wrong way. I'm not questioning your recommendation it just raises more questions for me.
Mitdr774 Wrote:My 22" Howa Mini drives the 123 SST to a 5 shot average of 2499 FPS with Benchmark and produces some very small groups. I have a great dislike for how plastic tipped bullets perform, but am willing to try the 123 SST in a Grendel since it is a lower velocity cartridge.
My rifle gets 2450 with factory 123gr SST and I have no complaint with their performance on deer. My sample size is only 3, but they seem to work well and they are highly recommended by most hunters using the Grendel.
1Shot gets about 2500 with the 120 gold dots, and 8208xbr, in 18" barrel. He loves his combo on deer.
For under 200 yds, the Nosler 100 BT should do well for you too. I have some 16" data with that one doing 2630, thus at 200 yds it has 2150 ft/s and 1000+ ftlb, fine for medium game.
It has loadings for H322. (I used some H322 in an older 6.8, so only a little experience but there are several who really like it as a powder, so I wouldn't see a problem working up some loads.)
Hodgdon lists a max load of 29.0 grs for H322 and 100 NBT.
I believe a lot of DNS' hog kills are CNS shots, behind the ear etc, but some also thru the body; mostly he goes for behind the ear. A 90 gr is great for that. Me personally, not sure I would try the tnt on deer unless that's all I had. There are several workable bullets more designed for medium game IMO.
"Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"
03-11-2020, 05:49 PM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2020, 09:36 AM by Harpoon1.)
WVB4 Wrote:Thanks for your response. I do, at times, tend to over think things. However, I work too hard, and opportunities are not always plentiful to get a good buck in front of me. That's why I'm concerned whether my bullet will blow up on impact, or will it act like a fmj. I'm sure most bullets designed for hunting will work, but the powders I listed have lower velocities for 123 and 129gr bullets especially with my shorter bbl.
I watched the video of the 90gr tnt, but I'd need to do further research regarding use on deer. I know hogs tend to be tougher than deer and while I hate to wound any animal or cause suffering, nobody cries when a hog gets away. A big buck is a different story all together. Having multiple shots in an open field on hogs is different than shooting deer in thick southern woods where one shot is usually all you get. Are there any videos or articles you'd recommend of further testing of the 90gr TNT? Thanks again for your thoughts and I hope this post doesn't come across in the wrong way. I'm not questioning your recommendation it just raises more questions for me.
DNS must have a 100 videos up on YouTube now, many using the 90 TNT. He almost always does a necropsy to show how the projectile performed. Its true many are CNS shots, moslty high and forward of the shoulder, in the neck. However many are also in the thoracic cavity. IIRC, there even a couple of doubles, where he waits for two to line up and kill both with one bullet. And Im pretty sure at least some of those doubles are with a 90 TNT. Its true they are not very big pigs but, that with a supposed Varmint bullet.
Having said that, given a choice between the 90 TNT and the 120 Gold Dot, with all things being equal, I would personally choose the Gold Dot. But if your concerned about speed, having trouble finding a load for them or only have access to faster burning powders, the 90 TNT is a very forgiving, capable bullet that is worth considering. IMO Especially between 40-100 yards.
I have several pounds of Benchmark at my house that I use for my .223 varmint loads. Never consider using it for the 6.5 Grendel. Now that you got me curious Im going to look into it myself.
FLshooter Wrote:I have several pounds of Benchmark at my house that I use for my .223 varmint loads. Never consider using it for the 6.5 Grendel. Now that you got me curious Im going to look into it myself.
I just tried several loads with it today. Ill try and post some data later. Looks decent, IMO.
Harpoon1 Wrote:DNS must have a 100 videos up on YouTube now, many using the 90 TNT. He almost always does a necropsy to show how the projectile performed. Its true many are CNS shots, moslty high and forward of the shoulder, in the neck. However many are also in the thoracic cavity. IIRC, there even a couple of doubles, where he waits for two to line up and kill both with one bullet. And Im pretty sure at least some of those doubles are with a 90 TNT. Its true they are not very big pigs but, that with a supposed Varmint bullet.
Having said that, given a choice between the 90 TNT and the 120 Gold Dot, with all things being equal, I would personally choose the Gold Dot. But if your concerned about speed, having trouble finding a load for them or only have access to faster burning powders, the 90 TNT is a very forgiving, capable bullet that is worth considering. IMO Especially between 40-100 yards.
I watched some more of the videos and that little bullet gets it done. I just ordered some 100gr BT, 62gr Gold Dots(for 5.56), and the 90gr tnt to mess around with. I also plan to tryout the 120gr Gold Dots later on. Hopefully I can do some hog testing of my own with the tnts.
Keep in mind that this was a load that worked in my rifle. Even though it's a stock Howa Mini it maybe may not be a load someone else can use. This was a load figures out in QL with the components I have on hand. 5 shot velocity average was 2499 FPS, done with a different string of 6 rounds. The stray shot was called due to an AR pistol on one side and an AR SBR on the other side firing when I was. Those things create way too much of a concussion.
He gets after them! Literally over 1000 hogs, and more than a couple of hundred of those, with the 90 TNT out of his AR platform @2800 FPS. Its forgiving bullet, plentiful and cheap. 