Best 22in or 24in barrel on a budget

[Herzo]

You should consider X-Caliber.net. My 6mm AR is performing well.

[tdbru]

to the OP, Jorge0272, i picked up a BCA complete 24" heavy barrel fluted 4150 upper from https://www.ammunitiondepot.com/ last fall for $359 if i recall. for the price i've been quite happy so far. and i am getting better little by little in learning how to shoot this style rifle. BCA web site no longer shows any 24" grendel complete uppers in stock. but if budget is critical, they've got a 16" complete upper for $219. in fact all their listed 6.5 Grendel complete uppers are going for $279 or less. that should meet your original price point. it's not 22" or 24" but if you can stand a 20" it's still under $300 at $279.
-tdbru

[Jorge0272]

@tdbru, I have an 18? upper with the group buy barrel and a 12? group buy barrel. It just seems that if I am only going to shoot paper at 600 yards, 556 is better. At least per my calculations.
I might just keep the 12? Grendel for hunting, sell the 18? barrel and build a 20?-24? 556 for target practice at 400-600 yards.

[A5BLASTER]

@tdbru, I have an 18? upper with the group buy barrel and a 12? group buy barrel. It just seems that if I am only going to shoot paper at 600 yards, 556 is better. At least per my calculations.
I might just keep the 12? Grendel for hunting, sell the 18? barrel and build a 20?-24? 556 for target practice at 400-600 yards.

Having shoot both at 600 at steel. 556 gets its butt whipped by grendel at 600.

[grayfox]

Tdbru you have said a few times that the 556 is "flatter" than the Grendel...
I'd like to ask for the ballistics of that, I'd like to run the numbers for myself.
At a minimum, Bullet, BC, MV, for both of your rifles under comparison.

Additionally, one more question: which is more important to you, "flatness" or accuracy -- guess I should say, accuracy with a certain amount "X" of terminal energy at impact.

edit to add: one reason I ask is for a couple of my loads, 77 gr 223 at 2699 ft/s, 18" wylde barrel, and 123 gr sst, 2505 ft/s and 20" barrel for the Grendel, ..........
Both arrive at 600 yds within 0.004 sec of each other... 0.893 vs 0.897. FWIW the 223 arrives the later.

So if time of flight is virtually the same I would think that windage effects would impact them for the same amount of time. Hence the bullet with better wind resistance -- BC or mass or whatever -- would have the better chance to be accurate.

'Course I could be missing something on this, there are better ballisticians on here who could chime in...

I don't personally care whether you build another 223 or a Grrr, but this seems a good topic to nail down some good answers.

So I was wondering.

[LRRPF52]

I think someone saw the single-loaded 80.5gr .224" loads from a 20" Shilen-barreled service rifle vs a more economical Grendel shooting bullets nowhere near max BC for Grendel on paper in an NRA-type service rifle match.

At least from mag-fed loads (which are really what matter to most people shooting semi-autos), the wind drift is less with 6.5 Grendel especially shooting 123gr SMK and 123gr Scenar, but recoil is higher.

OP is asking about a 22" to 24" Grendel.

[Jorge0272]

Grayfox, I believe I am the one that said the 556 was flatter to 600 per my ballistic chart. I was using the Hornady 123gr ELD-M against the Sierra 69gr TMK. the 556 was at 2.6 drop and the Grendel had a 3.2 in drop. Yes, the Grendel had twice the energy at 600 though and I am sure it will hold against the wind better.
My question was originally, I have an 18 in barrel. I was thinking about going with a 22-24 in barrel to get more velocity to be able to reach out further, but it seems I need a $500-$700 for just a barrel to reach out that far with any kind of consistency. That is not going happen. To me, that is just crazy. For that I buy a rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor and reach out easier than the Grendel and since I reload, ammo cost is the same. Also, I was going to take a DMR class and need to reach out to 600 yards with decent accuracy. Ammo is about $380 for 500 rounds. If I can do that with 556, ammo is only $180. That is a big difference in cost.
I do not hunt, so I do not need the Grendel to hunt at 1000 yards. I only do paper punching. If I did hunt, I do have a 12 in Grendel that I am sure would be awesome within 300 yards with the right load and placement.
I have been looking at different loads to see if I can get a better load for my 18 in barrel, but it seems loads are all over the place.
I guess I have to hit the range and keep looking for that right load.

[LRRPF52]

Just get a Criterion barrel for $325 if you want more speed. You don't need to spend $500.

600yds is pretty boring with any Grendel barrel length for me, but I'm at a much higher altitude than sea level so that's something to consider.

Looking at the cheapest 69gr target loads for .223 Rem I could find on ammoseek, Federal GMM is at $380.

In all the DM courses and LR shooting events I've done where people brought 5.56 and 69gr or 77gr, if there is any kind of wind, we have a really hard time hearing the hits on steel from about 400yds on-out. 350yds (not very challenging at all) is no problem, but we don't spent a ton of time messing with 350 once we've got everyone dialed-in on fundamentals, postional shooting, wind reading, etc.

The .223 rifles start to struggle in that 400-450yd range even though they're getting hits, because there just isn't much energy left. Some of the new Hornady and Berger bullets do much better, like the Hornady 73gr ELD-M, the 75gr ELD-M, the 80gr ELD-M, the Berger 75gr/80gr VLDs, Berger 80.5gr Fullbore (but some of these need to be single-loaded or shot from a bolt gun).

In 5mph or less conditions, we've had audible impacts with the 80gr ELD-M at 1000yds on a 20" gong fired from a custom bolt gun pushing the pressure. I think the threshold for audible impacts was around 7mph though. It was doing very well at long distance for hit probability, tight groupings, flat trajectory, and wind deflection.

But even with my 12" Grendel shooting some of the lowest 120gr BC TGT bullets at 800yds, my family (kids/wife) with no experience in LR shooting could easily hear the impacts at 800yds in pretty rough wind. I was just making hit-after-hit until the magazine went dry like it was easy or something, and that was using a 1-4x24 GRSC LPVO and the magazine as a monopod.

I really need to take the 12" out on the bipod and see what it will do with higher magnification and TGT bullets in the .523 and higher G1 BC range, as well as the 107gr SMK.

For a 22" AR15 Grendel pushing the right bullets for your conditions, you can get repeatable and predictable hits, basically like a .308 shooting some of the more modern bullets, with nowhere near the recoil and sight disturbance.

[grayfox]

Jorge my apologies, didn't mean to ask the wrong guy on this. The 223 -- well -- 556 load I mention is (I think) a Mk262 clone, this one I have is the IMI-556 77 gr one as it shoots well so far in my 18" wylde at 2699 (ok round to 2700!). (Maybe not DMR-good but pretty good for me, ~1"/100).
And the 123 gr as mentioned (2505) is one I have for my 20" Grrr barrel. I didn't mention those other 123's since I have no data for 'em personally.

'52 is right the Criterion barrel is only about $325 from a couple sources but certainly if you want to go the 556 route I'm totally ok with that.

Glass quality and budget are usually the limiting factors on my reaching 600 with these particular rifles. Plus the fact that I shoot bolt more often than AR.

I can't do prone that well ('cause of age and pains and stuff) so more power to ya in doing the class. Here's hoping you settle in on a good setup for what you're seeking.

[Jorge0272]

@LRRPF52, I am going to break down and buy your books on the Grendel. Hopefully I can find them at a good price.
Maybe that will help me out with finding a good load.
For the ammo, I have tons of brass for 556 that is ready to go and is free to me, which is why it would be cheaper for me. Brass for the Grendel is about $0.40 alone, plus the powder $0.04, primer $0.04 and bullet $0.30. So $0.25 each 556 round compared to $0.78 each Grendel. $125 for 500 rounds of 556 to $390 for the Grendel.
I do know the old saying "pay to play", but I also would prefer to not spend if not needed.
My 18 in barrel the group buy barrel. The load I am starting with and going to test is Hornady 123gr ELD-M or 123gr SST with 31.2gr of CFE223 (which is the only powder I have right now) which I think should get me close to 2500-2550. Probably switch the powder to AR-Comp or 8208XBR and keep the CFE223 for plinking 556.

[LRRPF52]

If you're going to use .223 Rem, I strongly recommend one of the new Hornady bullets that I mentioned that will mag-feed. The new ELD-Ms have great BCs for .224" in the .4-to-mid .4 region.