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Mustangfreek Wrote:And puts it on the pin
Read up, there?s lots of big name companies that won?t touch a rr
All on the pin assumes no static coefficient of friction in the bind. The heavy torque when the barrel nut is done up tight is evenly spread around the threads of the bind, until it comes loose and then drops dramatically. As it comes loose I'd rather the lower residual torque focussed on a steel pin than the more fragile receiver frame.
Who are the 'big name companies' you refer to?
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Sturmgewehr Wrote:Although - apparently a couple of pcs of wood and some wood clamps will work too....
https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/-ARCHI...1#i7871808
Two blocks of wood make for a great clamp, but I'd sooner sandwich the barrel with them than the receiver. Obviously you bring them together first and drill a hole slightly smaller than the barrel to be able to grip with max surface area in contact.
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If Mr. Geissele is comfortable using this system, then I certainly am. He's no dummy around AR's.
I've never had a problem.
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BCM likes them, LaRue likes them, Geissele... I'm seeing a trend. Who's the big name? BCA?
Klem's pretty smart too, and I'm with him on this one. The friction created by the face of the receiver on the opposite face of the extension tennon are pretty strong. You're not putting anywhere NEAR 45 ft-lbs on the pin, unless you're doing something wrong.
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Kswhitetails Wrote:BCM likes them, LaRue likes them, Geissele... I'm seeing a trend. Who's the big name? BCA?
Klem's pretty smart too, and I'm with him on this one. The friction created by the face of the receiver on the opposite face of the extension tennon are pretty strong. You're not putting anywhere NEAR 45 ft-lbs on the pin, unless you're doing something wrong.
I would have to agree. If your useing a device that locks itself into the barrel extention. Your not putting hardly any to any force on the pin.
For what it is I use the bev block, works great for installing barrels and muzzle devices. But I use the no torque method on my muzzle devices so the bev block works fine on that.
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Looks like Geissele has a new product, says it's for "over torqued, seized or Loctited barrel nuts."
https://geissele.com/super-reaction-rod-...liber.html
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I'm happy with Magpul's Bev Block, but am not enough of an expert to know if there's some hidden downside to it.
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Without one in my hand to test- I question how well the polymer isolates the upper from the steel insert engaging the barrel extension. Or it's as Klem contends and the friction between the barrel flange and the upper is enough to make it a non issue.
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Softjaws on a bench vise are handy and easy to make too.
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Somehow I deleted my previous post when editing. Duh.
I use a re, bb and clams. Can't remember using clams much. Mostly use the RR for anything that requires significant pressure. The BB is handy as a holding jig, that's what I mostly use it for.
That Brownells tool is fine and saves you some cash. When I worked for a defense contractor we made our own RRs.
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The Wheeler Delta Series AR-15 Upper Receiver Action Rod seems like a great option. I've been using the clamshell vise block for all my builds. I knew it wasn't the best option, but it does work. I think I will probably get the Wheeler action rod in the near future.
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At our club we have had a few different barrel spline socket rod/reaction rods in our shop. I am not a "buy the most expensive one, kinda guy. But I would never buy a rod without a sail. Our Midwest version is well worth the extra few bucks. The sail is a must for me because I dont do this kind of rifle work until I want to do a build or swap out a barrel, so maybe about 3-5 times a year. The sail helps take pressure away from the barrel index pin and receiver slot where, if a problem occurs, it usually occurus there. The sail also keeps everything in line and in time. We have used other types of reaction rods but everyone goes back to the Midwest rod. The Brownells is my least favorite. Nothing is keeping it true and wobble free during the torquing. Here is a good vid explaining it from a guy that knows his sh!t without any bias. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4AHiVGdfFQ video is from Chad Albrecht from School of the American Rifle. Very knoweledgable guy. Lots of great videos.
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I always time my bolts and barrel extensions to make sure there isnt any binding as I bed the barrel extension.
Once the bedding is dry, I then torque on the barrel nut, which doesnt matter at that point what tool or method is used.
Since the tools arent exact replicas of your bolt, I dont introduce another guess point since the bolt is the bolt.
Ive seen several builds where people are smashing their bolts into the barrel extension teeth, even on production guns.
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I thought reaction rods were blamed for unscrewing barrel extensions and out of favor now. No?
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06-08-2022, 03:23 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-08-2022, 06:32 AM by Klem.)
I like the idea of a reaction rod with sail, and what he says in the video makes sense. In the absence of tooling to isolate torque from both the action and barrel simultaneously, then every little bit helps.
What would be perfect is a barrel clamp isolating the barrel as close to the barrel extension as possible, and a receiver clamp isolating as close to the threads as possible. Both doing this at the same time. The two clamps would have to be lined up perfectly to prevent run-out as the nut gets done up, so while solving a problem this might introduce another problem.
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jackRyan Wrote:At our club we have had a few different barrel spline socket rod/reaction rods in our shop. I am not a "buy the most expensive one, kinda guy. But I would never buy a rod without a sail. Our Midwest version is well worth the extra few bucks. The sail is a must for me because I dont do this kind of rifle work until I want to do a build or swap out a barrel, so maybe about 3-5 times a year. The sail helps take pressure away from the barrel index pin and receiver slot where, if a problem occurs, it usually occurus there. The sail also keeps everything in line and in time. We have used other types of reaction rods but everyone goes back to the Midwest rod. The Brownells is my least favorite. Nothing is keeping it true and wobble free during the torquing. Here is a good vid explaining it from a guy that knows his sh!t without any bias. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4AHiVGdfFQ video is from Chad Albrecht from School of the American Rifle. Very knoweledgable guy. Lots of great videos.
Yup, not only does the Midwest reaction rod have a sail to keep pressure off the barrel index pin, but it works as a gauge demonstrated in the video. If the upper receiver slot is over sized, the Midwest RR will keep the barrel index pin straight so the barrel won't clock in the upper receiver..One thing I have noticed when tightening the barrel nut, the upper will squeeze around the barrel taking up any slop between the barrel and upper..This is making me question the necessity of bedding the barrel..
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