Thoughts on New 277 SIG Fury?

[A5BLASTER]

Sig released a video stating the 6.5 and .308 calibers, and a 24" barrel coming.

I am still waiting on someone to mention barrel life. The market is hunters, so the barrel will last long enough for the hunter to buy the latest and greatest.

Target shooters may get a little irked that they have to chase the lands after every couple hundred rounds, then start over after the 800 round mark with load development.

Match/Gamers are kind of out on the HP market as just about every match has a speed limit set between 3000 and 3200 fps, and a lot of 6.5cm guys are hand loading ammo to get 2900+ already...unless it is all to get a light rifle on the shooting line.

This is where I'm at on this.

Love the tech behind it. But it's a bet too much new and proprietary for it to be a wide spread hit in the civilian market place I'm thinking.

Now let's look at it this way. We all know 6.5 grendel is the most bang you can get in a ar15 right. The military owns,trains on m4,m16 platform rifles right.

So instead of making a new ar10 sized weapon platform and the resulting ammo for it.

Why not take this same case tech and new metal tech they are useing in the barrels and drop it in the ar15?

Same weapon system, same ergonomic's but you add all the advancements and still end up with a lighter more compact weapon system then the Sig.

I wouldn't run it at 80,000 psi say maybe 70 thousands psi.

We all know the military isn't the smartest when it comes to spending money. But this sig277 weapon package seems like a step back too the m14 1950 and 60's thinking in weapon tech.

Bigger faster got to be more gooder right?

I think it's a great step forward in tech but a huge step back in weapon tech.

[BluntForceTrauma]

Why not take this same case tech and new metal tech they are useing in the barrels and drop it in the ar15?

My thinking, as well. But only IF there are no issues with barrel life or the cost of specialty barrels and with increased magnum-level muzzle blast from 16" barrels. Can you imagine a lot of guys firing what amount to proof loads within buildings? Don't know if this is a military consideration, or not, whether guys are going deaf with every firefight.

[Brazz04]

I'll be buying one as soon as humanly possible, though I may stick to the 308 version first. Once some more testing has been done and ammo is available, add a .277 fury barrel as well.

[A5BLASTER]

My thinking, as well. But only IF there are no issues with barrel life or the cost of specialty barrels and with increased magnum-level muzzle blast from 16" barrels. Can you imagine a lot of guys firing what amount to proof loads within buildings? Don't know if this is a military consideration, or not, whether guys are going deaf with every firefight.

Yea the blast force has to be at retard levels inside a room.

I keep hearing how the ar weapon platform is outdated. And to me that doesn't make any sense. It's not the weapon platform that can't defeat what they want.
It's the bullet and lack of energy on target at spec'd ranges that's out of date.

So why pay the cost for a new much more expensive ar10 sized weapon, when you could take the same case and barrel metal tech and put it in weapon platform that are already paid for and in service.

But we all know how bad the military likes to spend money on un-needed things.

After watching and reading all I could on this Sig 277 it's very clear they tested just the one 277 cal bullet. If they had dropped a 6.5mm bullet in that case and ran it at the same pressures, they would have been pushing the 6.5mm bullet to the military and not the 277 cal bullet.

[stanc]

This is where I'm at on this.

Love the tech behind it. But it's a bet too much new and proprietary for it to be a wide spread hit in the civilian market place I'm thinking.

Concur. Unless it gets adopted by the Army, and then it will sell like the proverbial hotcakes on the civilian market.

Now let's look at it this way. We all know 6.5 grendel is the most bang you can get in a ar15 right.

Depends upon what you mean by the "most bang" you can get. The 6.8 SPC gives significantly faster muzzle velocity.

The military owns,trains on m4,m16 platform rifles right.

So instead of making a new ar10 sized weapon platform and the resulting ammo for it.

Why not take this same case tech and new metal tech they are useing in the barrels and drop it in the ar15?

Same weapon system, same ergonomic's but you add all the advancements and still end up with a lighter more compact weapon system then the Sig.

I wouldn't run it at 80,000 psi say maybe 70 thousands psi.

6.5 Grendel @ 70,000 PSI in an AR15??? :eek:

We all know the military isn't the smartest when it comes to spending money. But this sig277 weapon package seems like a step back too the m14 1950 and 60's thinking in weapon tech.

Bigger faster got to be more gooder right?

I think it's a great step forward in tech but a huge step back in weapon tech.

In some ways -- like magazine capacity, gun/ammo size and weight -- it is a big step backwards.

However, since the Army wants riflemen and machine gunners to be able to defeat modern body armor at range, "bigger faster" is needed.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My thinking, as well. But only IF there are no issues with barrel life or the cost of specialty barrels and with increased magnum-level muzzle blast from 16" barrels. Can you imagine a lot of guys firing what amount to proof loads within buildings? Don't know if this is a military consideration, or not, whether guys are going deaf with every firefight.

Apparently the military has considered it. Note the suppressor.

[stanc]

Yea the blast force has to be at retard levels inside a room.

I keep hearing how the ar weapon platform is outdated. And to me that doesn't make any sense. It's not the weapon platform that can't defeat what they want.
It's the bullet and lack of energy on target at spec'd ranges that's out of date.

So why pay the cost for a new much more expensive ar10 sized weapon, when you could take the same case and barrel metal tech and put it in weapon platform that are already paid for and in service.

What M4/M16/M249-compatible cartridge could possibly give the desired performance?

After watching and reading all I could on this Sig 277 it's very clear they tested just the one 277 cal bullet. If they had dropped a 6.5mm bullet in that case and ran it at the same pressures, they would have been pushing the 6.5mm bullet to the military and not the 277 cal bullet.

You seem to be under a fundamental misconception.

SIG is not "pushing" the 6.8mm bullet to the military.

The Army required developers to use a 6.8mm bullet.

[A5BLASTER]

What M4/M16/M249-compatible cartridge could possibly give the desired performance?


You seem to be under a fundamental misconception.

SIG is not "pushing" the 6.8mm bullet to the military.

The Army required developers to use a 6.8mm bullet.

No stanc you seem to be trying to pick apart my post and play on words.

I said if they had tested it with a 6.5mm bullet they would be trying to sell it to the military as a 6.5mm instead of 277 cal.

As far as the 6.8 comment on muzzle velocity. Muzzle velocity don't mean spit if your throwing a ballistic potato shaped bullet.

[stanc]

I said if they had tested it with a 6.5mm bullet they would be trying to sell it to the military as a 6.5mm instead of 277 cal.

And I said that you are wrong, because the Army had mandated that SIG and other developers use a (government-supplied) 6.8mm bullet.

SIG would have wasted time and $$$ trying to sell the Army a caliber they did not want, and which would not give the desired performance.

[Armadillo66]

Velocity related throat erosion and short barrel life has to be a concern. Just like the .264 Win Mag, shove them too fast, burn up your rifle.
I do applaud the super strong case head design engineering and could see a plus in belt fed Squad auto weapon that has single shot distance accuracy.
I also suspect the civilian market will be unlikely to benefit from the technology

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

< https://www.americanrifleman.org/article...nside-look >

I this morning received an email-response from a reliable source presently attending SHOT Show re the performance capabilities of the upcoming 6.5mm SIG Fury, loaded with the 6.5mm Sierra 150-grain Matchking projectile, from a 24" barrel: "3,000 fps plus is within the capabilities of the cartridge."

[BluntForceTrauma]

Chatted with a SIG staff guy at their booth at SHOT Show today about the increased muzzle blast signature, and he said he didn't think the higher pressure round was any louder than standard rounds.

Also had good conversation with a True Velocity guy about their white polymer case with stainless case head round. I challenged him from every direction I could think of and he answered my concerns satisfactorily. I'm mildly excited that they have a new technology that might actually work.

[Sticks]

Did anybody ask...pointedly, or has anyone here heard about expected barrel life? Real numbers, not "Higher than you might think".

[A5BLASTER]

Did anybody ask...pointedly, or has anyone here heard about expected barrel life? Real numbers, not "Higher than you might think".

I did some looking and best I could find on barrel life was 'better then you might think'.