Bear Creek Arsenal now posting pictures of groups at 100 yards on their website

[A5BLASTER]

As per your request. Have more if needed. These are from a 24 inch BCA complete Rifle, 100 yards.

Ok so you have 2 groups that went under a inch. Oh and congrats on the groups sir.

Anyone else with these elusive sub moa bca barrels care too show some sub moa groups?

[HuntTXhogs]

So has anybody actually accepted my original challenge.

BUY A CURRENT BARREL FROM A WEBPAGE OFF THEIR SITE AND TRY RECREATING THEIR PHOTOGRAPHED GROUPINGS.

It would certainly go to show a lot in terms of informing the community.

[CaptnC]

Pictures I tried post on this are so small, I will give a try. When I get I chance later today.

I don't live on the internet, just visit now and then...but I will see if the pics look decent. Some of the pictures I've tried to post looked terrible...hard to see the details.

[BluntForceTrauma]

Consistency, I think, is what one pays for when one orders a more expensive barrel. The barrel makers with better reputations are consistently good. The barrel makers with not-so-good reputations are randomly good. (Which also means they are randomly bad.)

So, I'm not gonna dispute anybody's good results with BCA barrels. Nor am I gonna dispute anybody's bad results.

It's like shooting three-shot groups. There's some kind of statistical analysis (above MY head) that says a group is NOT statistically valid until 8 shots, or so. It's entirely possible to RANDOMLY get a fantastic three-shot group followed by a RANDOMLY bad three-shot group just based on statistical variability. Like flipping a coin. You might get heads five times in a row and think you're "shooting" fantastic, but over the long run your odds will even out to 50/50.

That's a long-winded way of saying three-shot groups don't mean much, statistically speaking.

It's also a long-winded way of saying a few very good or very bad barrels do not make or break a reputation. It's like cars. Some auto makers have certain reputations, which may or may not be deserved. Where is the bulk of the data trend averaging out?

And, ladies and gentlemen, in conclusion: I'm just glad folks are buying guns and ammo and getting out there shooting. What "car" they wanna drive and how much they pay for it is their business.

[CaptnC]

Ok...let me fill in all the facts.

This was two weeks ago. I was moving my Rebel Silencer to my wife's 18" SS 5R BCA 6.5 Grendel that I built the upper with a left had side charge.

Thsee groups where shot with a break and three pink Limb Saver donuts on thr barrel. Why? This barrel shot very good with a Magnetospeed on the barrel, so I thought I would try these things. $14.00 a set wasn't much for the little experiment. I had never shot the rifle with them installed until two weeks ago. It moved the POI a bit right...about the same size groups as normal. Can't say it was an improvement.

The four shot where just what was in the mag when I took it out of the case. I used a bipod and bag under the back. I suck at shooting targets so I was not really trying for a tight group. Mainly looking to see how the can influenced POI.

Yellow circle is 4 shot group...low left was cold bore shot, first shot...remaining three grouped together.

Shots with orange line was after I pulled the brake and replaced it with my silencer.

[CaptnC]

Ok...it worked...

I only shoot at 200yds...so this is 200yards. I think the dot in the center is 1"...it looks smaller than that, but I have not measured it so I assume it's at least 1".

Of course the group with the can screwed on sucks! I have a 16" CM Yankee Hill barrel 7.62x39 that did the same thing. So it didn't totally surprise me.

The one thing I did not do was remove those pretty pink donuts. So off comes the can so I can remove them.

Shoot two shots...again not looking for a tight group but look to see if there was an improvement...the two high shots...made scope adjustment and took the shot at 6 o'clock...put the gun in the case!

Those three little rubber things with my can made it shoot wild. There is one more shot that was on the target to the right on the target in my previous post.

Couldn't believe it made that much difference and yes I made sure it was tight once I seen it walking all over the place.

[outbreaker]

Ok...it worked...

I only shoot at 200yds...so this is 200yards. I think the dot in the center is 1"...it looks smaller than that, but I have not measured it so I assume it's at least 1".

Of course the group with the can screwed on sucks! I have a 16" CM Yankee Hill barrel 7.62x39 that did the same thing. So it didn't totally surprise me.

The one thing I did not do was remove those pretty pink donuts. So off comes the can so I can remove them.

Shoot two shots...again not looking for a tight group but look to see if there was an improvement...the two high shots...made scope adjustment and took the shot at 6 o'clock...put the gun in the case!

Those three little rubber things with my can made it shoot wild. There is one more shot that was on the target to the right on the target in my previous post.

Couldn't believe it made that much difference and yes I made sure it was tight once I seen it walking all over the place.

Mass Affects harmonics in an object. Adding or subtracting mass can massively affect it, less so in a stiffer (read bull) barrel.

Adding the limbsavers took you out of an accuracy harmonic with the can. Handloading can solve that issue if you really want to shoot with them on. I never experienced a real change with them in terms of accuracy.

[slappyhooper]

So has anybody actually accepted my original challenge.

BUY A CURRENT BARREL FROM A WEBPAGE OFF THEIR SITE AND TRY RECREATING THEIR PHOTOGRAPHED GROUPINGS.

It would certainly go to show a lot in terms of informing the community.

I'm not a BCA fanboy. I'm a sucker for cheap barrels though, so there's some crossover.

I've built and tested.....over a dozen of their barrels in 5.56/.223 Wylde, and a couple in 300 blackout, and three barrels in 6.5 Grendel, and am about to test one in 308.
I lap my upper receiver face, and use shim stock to get a tight fit between the upper receiver and barrel extension.
I don't reload, so I can't do load workups for their barrels.
From bags off a concrete bench, 100 yards, 5 round groups, my experiences so far have been:


1x Heavy Profile .223 Wylde carbine gas 1:8 barrel 1.25-1.50 MOA cold with good ammo. I don't think the barrel was properly stress relieved because as it heated up, it turned into about a 5 MOA barrel.

2x 16" 5.56 pencil profile nitride mid gas barrels 1:7 2.5 MOA or so cold with good ammo, 4-5 MOA with cheap blasting ammo, and about 6-8 MOA when heated up.

3x 16" m4 profile 5.56 nitride carbine gas barrels 1:8 1.5-2.0 MOA with good ammo, 3-4 MOA with cheap blasting ammo. Groups remained good when barrel was heated up.

2x 20" Govt profile 5.56 nitride rifle gas 1:7 1.25 MOA with good ammo, 2.5 MOA w/cheap ammo. Consistent groups when hot.0.6 MOA GROUPS WITH AUSSIE OUTBACK 55 SBK

1x 16" light profile .223 Wylde parkerized mid gas 1:8 <1.5 MOA w/good ammo, 2-3 MOA with cheap ammo very consistent, even when hot.

1x 16" m4 profile 5.56 parkerized carbine gas 1:8 <1 MOA w/good ammo, 2-3 MOA w/cheap ammo. Very consistent. Not free floated, still shot awesome.

1x 16" m4 profile .223 Wylde Nitride carbine gas 1:9 2-3 MOA w/good ammo, 5-7 MOA w/cheap ammo. all over the place. not free floated, shot like hot garbage.

2x 8.5" mid-weight profile 300blk nitride, pistol gas 1:8 1.5 MOA w/good ammo, 2-5 MOA with cheap ammo depending on load. consistent, shot great.

2x 16" m4 profile 6.5Grendel nitride, carbine gas 1:8 3 MOA w/ 123 grain ELD, 8 MOA w/123 grain SST, 12+ MOA w/Wolf steel cased 100 grain. Both barrels shot like hot garbage. Sent back.

1x 18" heavy fluted 6.5Grendel, nitride mid gas 1:8 5R 1 MOA w/ 123 grain ELD, 3-4 MOA w/Wolf steel cased

1x 20" SOCOM profile .308 nitride rifle gas 1:10 TBD. I got this on a whim. it looks REALLY decent. I think they put more QC into this one than normal, but we'll see. Testing next week.

Bottom line, I think they're generally full of crap when they post those videos, BUT, it's generally pretty easy to get a barrel that will shoot 1.5 MOA or better, which for a general purpose build is ok.
Overall, I think they're worth it for cheapskates who like to tinker. For somebody who just wants a quality barrel out of the gate, you'd be best served just buying a barrel that costs 2x more and having more peace of mind.

If I hand loaded, I'm pretty sure some of the mediocre results I saw would have improved, but it is what it is. You have to expect that ~$50.00 barrels are going to be that price for a reason.

[HuntTXhogs]

That certainly is quite a body of work slappy

Thanks for sharing !

As I came to the end someone’s words from a previous post rang in my head “lack of consistency”...

Seems like from batch to batch or dependent on the well compensated employee on the machine you will get a variance lot to lot, or week to week, hell maybe hour by hour.

This brings up a good new idea, maybe they should update their photos monthly and add a target from December to existing with a different barrel from the same item stock - I’d sure tip my hat to them if they post some 8-12 MOA targets with match ammo .

[Clove8]

Look up my latest post on finally found my guns load. NOw granted it is a hand load but that is 100% fact shot out of a 18” bca barrel. I don’t like the barrel because factory ammo in a 1-1/2 minimum with match ammo but after about 20 different load work ups and 3 powders and 3 bullets. 26.8 TAC under a 120 gold dot I shot 2 groups of sub moa .40” with this round and a couple of .80 and .60 with the 123sst loads I have.

[LRRPF52]

I'm not a BCA fanboy. I'm a sucker for cheap barrels though, so there's some crossover.

I've built and tested.....over a dozen of their barrels in 5.56/.223 Wylde, and a couple in 300 blackout, and three barrels in 6.5 Grendel, and am about to test one in 308.
I lap my upper receiver face, and use shim stock to get a tight fit between the upper receiver and barrel extension.
I don't reload, so I can't do load workups for their barrels.
From bags off a concrete bench, 100 yards, 5 round groups, my experiences so far have been:


1x Heavy Profile .223 Wylde carbine gas 1:8 barrel 1.25-1.50 MOA cold with good ammo. I don't think the barrel was properly stress relieved because as it heated up, it turned into about a 5 MOA barrel.

2x 16" 5.56 pencil profile nitride mid gas barrels 1:7 2.5 MOA or so cold with good ammo, 4-5 MOA with cheap blasting ammo, and about 6-8 MOA when heated up.

3x 16" m4 profile 5.56 nitride carbine gas barrels 1:8 1.5-2.0 MOA with good ammo, 3-4 MOA with cheap blasting ammo. Groups remained good when barrel was heated up.

2x 20" Govt profile 5.56 nitride rifle gas 1:7 1.25 MOA with good ammo, 2.5 MOA w/cheap ammo. Consistent groups when hot.0.6 MOA GROUPS WITH AUSSIE OUTBACK 55 SBK

1x 16" light profile .223 Wylde parkerized mid gas 1:8 <1.5 MOA w/good ammo, 2-3 MOA with cheap ammo very consistent, even when hot.

1x 16" m4 profile 5.56 parkerized carbine gas 1:8 <1 MOA w/good ammo, 2-3 MOA w/cheap ammo. Very consistent. Not free floated, still shot awesome.

1x 16" m4 profile .223 Wylde Nitride carbine gas 1:9 2-3 MOA w/good ammo, 5-7 MOA w/cheap ammo. all over the place. not free floated, shot like hot garbage.

2x 8.5" mid-weight profile 300blk nitride, pistol gas 1:8 1.5 MOA w/good ammo, 2-5 MOA with cheap ammo depending on load. consistent, shot great.

2x 16" m4 profile 6.5Grendel nitride, carbine gas 1:8 3 MOA w/ 123 grain ELD, 8 MOA w/123 grain SST, 12+ MOA w/Wolf steel cased 100 grain. Both barrels shot like hot garbage. Sent back.

1x 18" heavy fluted 6.5Grendel, nitride mid gas 1:8 5R 1 MOA w/ 123 grain ELD, 3-4 MOA w/Wolf steel cased

1x 20" SOCOM profile .308 nitride rifle gas 1:10 TBD. I got this on a whim. it looks REALLY decent. I think they put more QC into this one than normal, but we'll see. Testing next week.

Bottom line, I think they're generally full of crap when they post those videos, BUT, it's generally pretty easy to get a barrel that will shoot 1.5 MOA or better, which for a general purpose build is ok.
Overall, I think they're worth it for cheapskates who like to tinker. For somebody who just wants a quality barrel out of the gate, you'd be best served just buying a barrel that costs 2x more and having more peace of mind.

If I hand loaded, I'm pretty sure some of the mediocre results I saw would have improved, but it is what it is. You have to expect that ~$50.00 barrels are going to be that price for a reason.

Quoted for future reference.

[slappyhooper]

I work in manufacturing. We sure as hell don't advertise any defects in what we put out. We're invest a lot more in QC though, and it shows in our final product. There's always that balance of scrap vs finished good when you're trying to hit a certain market segment.

BCA definitely makes mistakes and then sells off the mistakes at huge discounts.

You see that pretty routinely with oddballs like 16" 5.56 barrels set up with pistol length gas systems, or just weird, one off things.

Like I said, I'm a cheapskate at heart, so I don't mind.

There are times they do things like blow out overstock barrels for 35 bucks shipped, and there's not a damn thing wrong with the barrel.
It's just kind of a crapshoot.

I still like them as a company because they allow broke people to buy AR15s that otherwise might not have been able to afford them.

There's a lot of elitism in the gun world. The proper strategy is to have AR15s in such common use that they can't be demonized because everybody has one. (or three).
It's a lot easier to get to that point if every budget can afford a gat.

[drykilned]

No expert here. Issued a M16 for guard duty in the Air Force way back (early "60s). Built 2 BCA Barreled 6.5 Grendel II 18" Barrel SS 5R using all low-cost parts
while recovering from stent placement on one and stroke recovery on the other. I am 75 years old so eyes and breathing is not what it once was. On good days I still shoot MOA 3 shot groups at 100YDS. I feel that unless you are strictly a target shooter or compulsive small group shooter the BCA barrels are great. I do reload ALL my ammunition. The only factory ammunition I have bought since 1963 has been 22 rimfire. First I am a hunter then I experiment with different loads for all my rifles for hunting purposes. I will continue to purchase BCA barrels. By the way, one of my 6.5 grendel barrels was purchased off the internet from someone who never even put it on a gun because he read about the bad BCA. $60 SS fluted 18" HBAR 5R. Shoots great and was fun building and working up loads. 30GR CFE 223 123SSt and 28.5 RL15 123SST @ 2379-2415FPS are most accurate.

[Lemonaid]

Second pic. from BCA with different load for your enjoyment!
https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/bca-ar-...split-rail

[Novercalis]

I had a 16 inch upper of there’s. It would barley do 2 moa. So I decided to replace the barrel with a 18 inch core rifle systems. When I went to take off the barrel nut from the BCA (I purchased a complete upper) I noticed that it took very little torque to remove, maybe 15 psi (I’m a mechanic) food for thought. I’m shooting the rebuild this Saturday

[Lemonaid]

BCA pic #3
https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/bca-ar-...split-rail

[pashiner]

My first and so far only AR is a BCA 24" grendel II upper on an 80% lower I built with the very cheapest parts money could buy. I'm a compulsive tinkerer, so I thought I could really learn about tuning ARs if I started with a platform that needed a bunch of tinkering straight out of the box. I'm primarily a plinker and varmint shooter (not to be confused with real hunters) so most of my shooting is field positions...offhand, kneeling, unstable rests like truck tailgates, backpacks full of junk etc. So far I'm not disappionted. I put together a working rifle for less than $400 that shoots 3-ish moa with wolf steel case, and 1.5-2 moa with a variety of good factory hunting ammo. Now I'm not the best shot in the world, so I can believe that with pet loads and a better shooter, sub MOA might be possible. I haven't seen it happen in person though, but it's more accuracy than I really need at an outrageously cheap price. My only disappointment is that I learned very little in the process. I put all the parts together, slammed a magazine in it and got good enough results without any fuss. I'm sure I could improve things with a decent trigger, truing the upper, adjusting the gas, and working up handloads, but why? It blows farm pests to smithereens with pretty boring regularity, which is good enough for me right now.

[FLshooter]

I had a 16 inch upper of there’s. It would barley do 2 moa. So I decided to replace the barrel with a 18 inch core rifle systems. When I went to take off the barrel nut from the BCA (I purchased a complete upper) I noticed that it took very little torque to remove, maybe 15 psi (I’m a mechanic) food for thought. I’m shooting the rebuild this Saturday

I alway check the torque on the barrel nut w/my torque wrench before I remove it.I buy BCA uppers for the parts,so do my buddies.I have removed over a dozen BCA barrel nuts by now.They were all torqued over the 40lbs I torque them at.Had to take a torch to several.But,I have had many loose BCA hand guards.At the price they sell uppers,I am sure they have a high demand and have to move them out quickly ,so there will be mistakes.

[HuntTXhogs]

I’m hearing a trend developing - let me try and recap

* there is a segment in the consumer market for those who seek to purchase parts and assemble rifles at rock bottom prices and will accept accuracy that lies outside the calibers standard envelope.

I suppose I get it, heck even I strive to do the same , I’ve got 5 Diamondback Firearm barrels that I paid $ 109 a piece for.

Difference being, I cannot accept results outside the calibers accuracy envelope.

Why not ?

Because the price is too high per round on Grendel (factory and hand loaded)

If I’m wanting to exercise my trigger finger, hearing things go bang, and rid a few pests from the ranch I’d simply choose a 223 or 7.62x39 for that chore. After about 5k rounds that Grendel will have cost you some money regardless of barrel choice and maker - which sort of put the whole ideal of assembling a dirt cheap rifle on it’s head.

Now , point to this thread is - I apparently don’t need to wonder anymore if BCA barrels are shooters because the folks in NC are nice enough to post itty-bitty group photos on the product page which certifies their product as accurate inside the accuracy envelope.

Problem is I haven’t seen (for myself) or viewed anybody matching their results with barrels and ammo purchased in the last 45 days.......

In closing: a $ 400.00 - $600.00 build that WILL shoot small groups IS the goal of MANY frugal consumers. For reasonable amounts of shooting it can remain cost competitive with other calibers. I haven’t seen that BCA is the answer so I’ll keep looking Diamondback’s way for the Grendel truck gun / youth training rifle / backup hunter rig build(s).

[sbowhuntr]

Well I took the old bca 20" grr out this past weekend for a real test. It did well doing 3 round groups with 90g varmaggeddons and 30.7g H-335 cci 450 primers. 7/8"-1" 100y 3 shot groups were common. So about consistency, it was a no go as 5 round groups opened up to around 1.5 -2" I did one 10 shot string and it was good till the 4th shot and then fell apart, ended up with a 4" group��. Its good for hunting i suppose but I ordered a 20" monster bbl tonite.