Extractor Broke

[diddlyv]

Yesterday my extractor broke at the range. I was shooting American Gunner. The rifle has less than 200 rounds thru it. Is american gunner a problem or is it probably just a bad part the came with the barrier defense upper. The good news is I had 2 spare extractors at home. Is there a source for a reliable and durable extractor or are the generally all about the same.

Are broken extractors a common thing for Grendels. I have never had an extractor break on a 5.56 though a guy next to me at the range last week had one break.

[VASCAR2]

Either the extractor was defective or your rifle is over gassed. Over gassed and poorly fitting extractor to the rim of the case can hurt extractor longevity. My 16” carbine gas 6.5 Grendel extractor failed at approximately 1000 rounds. The extractor would leave fang marks on the rim of the brass. Some ammo in the carbine gas rifle appears to be over gassed. I have considered buying an adjustable gas Bootleg carrier since I have a pinned A-2 front sight/gas block. A Friend had a bolt failure on his Brownell’s Satern/Liberty 18” upper early on. He switched to an adjustable gas block and has had no further issues. The gas ports are pretty large on those Brownell’s 18” barrels.

[diddlyv]

Either the extractor was defective or your rifle is over gassed. Over gassed and poorly fitting extractor to the rim of the case can hurt extractor longevity. My 16? carbine gas 6.5 Grendel extractor failed at approximately 1000 rounds. The extractor would leave fang marks on the rim of the brass. Some ammo in the carbine gas rifle appears to be over gassed. I have considered buying an adjustable gas Bootleg carrier since I have a pinned A-2 front sight/gas block. A Friend had a bolt failure on his Brownell?s Satern/Liberty 18? upper early on. He switched to an adjustable gas block and has had no further issues. The gas ports are pretty large on those Brownell?s 18? barrels.

Thanks, I will consider getting an adjustable gas block. For now will see what happens with the replacement extractor. Any particular extractors I need to stay away from or any recommended? The brass lands about 4 O'clock if that if illuminating

[VASCAR2]

AA, Maxim, JP and Millennium (Monster Group Buy) bolts get good reviews. I bought two AA extractors after breaking my first on my 16” carbine gas barrel.

Without measuring the gas port and knowing the barrel length hard to say if the upper is over gassed. You can’t always go by ejection pattern but my 16” barrel will eject at 2 O Clock with hotter ammo. The particular buffer spring and buffer weight also play into the timing of an AR-15.

You could use the google custom search on Barrier Defense to get an idea on quality. Barrier Defense isn’t one of the common vendors mentioned on this forum.

Here is a link to the 6.5 Grendel forum custom search.

https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=0163689474...cu1o&hl=en

[george883]

Were you at Ben Avery when it happened?

[lazyengineer]

From what I can tell (and I know this is fighting words for some folks), the Grendel extracctor has less metal on it than a 5.56 extractor. Mine broke as well, at just 600 rounds (PSA). From where it snapped, you can see that the only structural metal in the thing was via the "rib" part (where a lug would be on the bolt), and that was about it. The rest of the extractor metal where the claw ripped off was pretty much paper-thin.

Supposedly in a correctly gassed gun with a well made extractor properly cared for etc etc, they don't break. But beyond that, it does look like room for tolerance error and a hard life is thinner than a standard AR design. I ordered several more spare extractors. So far, out of about >1500 rounds, only the one broke on me so far.

[A5BLASTER]

From what I can tell (and I know this is fighting words for some folks), the Grendel extracctor has less metal on it than a 5.56 extractor. Mine broke as well, at just 600 rounds (PSA). From where it snapped, you can see that the only structural metal in the thing was via the "rib" part (where a lug would be on the bolt), and that was about it. The rest of the extractor metal where the claw ripped off was pretty much paper-thin.

Supposedly in a correctly gassed gun with a well made extractor properly cared for etc etc, they don't break. But beyond that, it does look like room for tolerance error and a hard life is thinner than a standard AR design. I ordered several more spare extractors. So far, out of about >1500 rounds, only the one broke on me so far.

Properly gassed, quality parts and a lapped reciver. They last a very long time.

My AA bolt has nearly 5500 rounds on it now. The vast majority of those rounds is wolf fmj's. Extractor is still going strong.

But I do keep spares. Cause less face it. It's a ar15 there isn't a single part in or on the rifle that is meant to last forever.

I only use AA and group buy bolts now. And all my rifles have adjustable gas and a lapped reciver face.

[FALer]

Properly gassed, quality parts and a lapped reciver. They last a very long time.

My AA bolt has nearly 5500 rounds on it now. The vast majority of those rounds is wolf fmj's. Extractor is still going strong.

But I do keep spares. Cause less face it. It's a ar15 there isn't a single part in or on the rifle that is meant to last forever.

I only use AA and group buy bolts now. And all my rifles have adjustable gas and a lapped reciver face.

What adjustable regulator are you liking these days?
I've got an Odin works and a couple of SLR's on my suppressed 5.56/308/x39. I'm assuming those are fine still, or have new advancements been made, making other brands better choices?
and to stay on topic, are the AA extractors the "go to" to keep on hand? Are there any, folks like better?
Nate

[A5BLASTER]

What adjustable regulator are you liking these days?
I've got an Odin works and a couple of SLR's on my suppressed 5.56/308/x39. I'm assuming those are fine still, or have new advancements been made, making other brands better choices?
and to stay on topic, are the AA extractors to "go to" to keep on hand? Are there any folks like better?
Nate

I like wojteck gas blocks. Because they are cheaper and do just as good of a job as the high dollar JP adjustable gas blocks I once used.

I don't know if they are the go to extractors for anybody else. But they are the only extractors I buy to keep on hand incase one breaks. AA and the group buy bolts are the only bolts I buy anymore. If the extractor on one of my group buy bolts breaks I will replace it with a spare AA extractor.

[FALer]

I'll take a look at the Wojtech gb's. I really don't need anything fancy, I set them for almost the least gas that will run them unsuppressed and then I almost never run them without a suppressor.

I'm gonna grab an extra Monster bolt and then I'll put back a couple extractors.

[diddlyv]

yes I was a Ben Avery when it happened

[lazyengineer]

Drat, just broke another one. Both of my PSA extractors have now broken. In not that many rounds (somewhere around 1-2k). In the latest one, it was the first shot out of a 20" barrel with rifle gas system, using brass cased ammo. I can't recall, but it's possible my prior usage ended with steel cased ammo, and not cleaned. I'm starting to wonder if I should switch to firing a few rounds of brass at the end of any outing where steel was used, so as to clean out the gunk, which loves sticking to brass, while it's still warm and a little softer. A thought at least.

But anyway, yea, my PSA Grendel extractor's aren't holding up so good.

[VASCAR2]

I think it might be worth lapping the face of your upper receiver on your PSA 6.5 Grendel. Honestly I don’t think shooting steel cases at the end of the session should be an issue unless the chamber was really carboned up. Sounds like you’ve got another issue if you’ve broken a second extractor. It’s entirely possible PSA got some inferior quality extractors for the 6.5 Grendel. Not unheard of to get a batch of low quality steel or poor heat treat.

I probably have less than 600 rounds on my PSA 12” pistol but so far it has been gtg. You might consider buying extractors from Black Rifle Arms. Supposedly their extractors are of good quality.


https://www.blackriflearms.com/-65-Grend...p_297.html

[lazyengineer]

Upper had been lapped.

To date, I have not been impressed or seen meaningful improvement from lapping. For me, in several guns, it's pretty much been a waste of time with no positive benefit.

[BluntForceTrauma]

Got detailed pix of the extractors and the bolt? If you don't mind, I'm studying Grendel extractors to re-design them to make them stronger.

[lazyengineer]

Got detailed pix of the extractors and the bolt? If you don't mind, I'm studying Grendel extractors to re-design them to make them stronger.

It's a PSA BCG. FWIW, I'm running this one in a Bravo Company upper (their barrel connection zone is amongst the tightest of any upper you can get, for a firm fit), that had been lapped, and with an Alexander Arm's BBL. Gun cycles and operates fine, brass normally comes out just fine, with no indicator that headspace is out of spec (i.e. brass stretch is the same as typical), and the brass fell out of the chamber just by tipping up the barrel, so not a rough chamber apparently.

The extractor was Stamped 7-2 on the inside, and appears 100% identical to the Black Rifle Arm's co replacement extractor I just put in, including the 7-2 marking. As far as I know it's the original PSA extractor, but in any event it's apparently the same extractor that BRA uses. It ripped off the claw. The new BRA replacement extractor has the inside corners of the claw slightly relieved and radius-ed (as correct for Grendel); and I haven't test fired that yet.

So far, while I do love Grendel - the extractor experience has not been good for me. I keep round-count records on each gun. In 60,000 rounds of 5.56 (several rifles), I've broken 1 extractor. In 2,500 rounds of Grendel, I've already broken 2. Which is a ratio of Grendel breaking about 50X higher than my 5.56 extractors do.

[Old Bob]

So far I've not broken any extractors on any caliber AR. I do keep spare bolts & extractors for all my ARs 'cause crap can happen at any time with semi-autos. My spare extractors for my 5.56 bolts are from Wilson Combat & my Grendel spares are from BRA (7-2 stamped also). I have American Firearms MFG heavy duty springs in all my bolts (no rubber donuts needed). Gonna keep my fingers crossed I never have to replace an extractor but I'm prepared in case I do.

[LRRPF52]

I keep asking myself, why doesn't this happen to me?

There are companies that source parts based on tiny margins and high volume.

Guess what happens to quality control in a business model like that?

Even AA had a bad run of them because some of the tooling got off-track with precision grinding, but it was a short window of time and they addressed it quick.

This is back to the difference between a real Grendel bolt and one that is trying to imitate without taking measurements of everything.

If you just copy as many 5.56 bolt dimensions as possible, like the extractor shelf depth and the extractor pin location, and bolt tail length, it isn't going to be ideal.

The extractor reinforcement spine is a critical shape on all Stoner rotating bolt designs, otherwise the lip just shears off.

The Grendel bolt design Bill A. developed was a result of many years of testing and refinement, with the benefit of having done most of the work already on the Beowulf bolt.

Getting reliable snap-over and extraction across a large sample fleet of test rifles that used rims based on the 7.62x39 was not accidental.

[lazyengineer]

I have a conjecture theory I'm testing. I suspect grendel extractors have tight tolerance and a stiff spring (mine does) and I am wondering if they actually break on closing sometimes. I've broken 2 now, though cant say if it was on closing or on opening. So now, I am testing if liberally lube on the extractor claw, so it can more easily snap over the rim, helps. So far so good, but not very many rounds. Or that may have nothing at all to do with it, just a test.

[A5BLASTER]

I have a conjecture theory I'm testing. I suspect grendel extractors have tight tolerance and a stiff spring (mine does) and I am wondering if they actually break on closing sometimes. I've broken 2 now, though cant say if it was on closing or on opening. So now, I am testing if liberally lube on the extractor claw, so it can more easily snap over the rim, helps. So far so good, but not very many rounds. Or that may have nothing at all to do with it, just a test.

Have you taken the o-ring off?

If it has a o-ring in it remove it and see how it does.

For what it is, the only time I have had feeding issues is when I forgot to take the o-ring out of my sixfivearms/ group buy bolts.