Posts: 156
Threads: 20
Joined: Jul 2017
I will probably end up asking a few different questions in this thread.
I have a Faxon 16" barrel that I have not been overly impressed with accuracy. Probably a large part of that is me, and I don't mind owning that.
Currently mounted to an Anderson upper and lower, with Faxon bolt and bolt carrier group.
I have an Aero upper on order that is intended to be it's permanent home. Going to lap it, even if it doesn't need it, don't see how it can hurt.
First question is, what is a good tool to use to hold everything while torquing the barrel nut, etc? Geiselle has a couple of different tools, Magpull has one, "Barsoka"? has one? Don't want to waste money for nothing, but do want something that is quality and will last. I will be pulling this rifle apart a couple of times before it is truly done, plus I have a 20" 5.56 barrel to put back into the Anderson upper that the Faxon barrel is coming off of. And who knows what after that.
What about barrel nut wrenches?
Posts: 3,654
Threads: 17
Joined: Aug 2013
Brownells sells a torque isolating tool that does exactly the same thing as the Geiselle rod, for half the price. Called the Barrel Extension Torque Tool.
Or you can use a barrel vise like the Davidson, or this one is similar and cheaper; https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools...58959.aspx
Or clamp the barrel between a pair of jaws.
Or make your own jaws out of two blocks of wood.
Posts: 6,193
Threads: 170
Joined: Mar 2015
Magpul bev block is what you want.
Use it to install barrel and muzzle devices. It has been a great tool for me and my builds.
Posts: 3,654
Threads: 17
Joined: Aug 2013
For working on muzzle devices I try to isolate the torque as close to the muzzle as possible, so it's a barrel vise for me.
Posts: 415
Threads: 1
Joined: Oct 2018
For AR-15 size receivers the Magpul bev block works well. I also have the Brownells tool mentioned above but it is a bit clumsy to use. Klem is correct in that a barrel vise is truly the correct way if you have the bench space and the $ for it.
For pin type wrenches I like the PRI one, it can reach deeper than most others for use on systems with captive handguard nuts such as LaRue. It also has holes which a punch or gas tube alignment gauge can be used to know you have a hole/tooth gap centered without taking the wrench off.
Posts: 3,654
Threads: 17
Joined: Aug 2013
[QUOTE=FRB6.5;239675...I also have the Brownells tool mentioned above but it is a bit clumsy to use. .[/QUOTE]
FRB,
Nice spot with the PRI tools, have just been checking them out.
For the Brownells tool, what do you mean by clumsy?
Posts: 415
Threads: 1
Joined: Oct 2018
The Brownells tool works "backwards" from the others. The torque wrench goes into the rear of it and you are to put your barrel nut wrench in the vise. I find it difficult to keep everything in place. The vise they use in their video is quite different in design than most people have access to so the wrench isn't going to lay flat and be supported like they show.
You can kludge it into sort of a reaction rod style with some 1/2" square bar stock, but ideally they would need welded together to be truly stable.
Posts: 415
Threads: 1
Joined: Oct 2018
Caveat emptor on these:
https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools...12470.aspx
Their specs say they are 3 5/8" long, they are actually 4" which may not fit in some cases, are reviews on that page going back to 2010 stating as much which I wish I had read prior to buying them.
Also use heavy paper, thin sheet rubber, inner tube, leather strap etc. around the barrel or you will slip and mar the finish.
Posts: 4,287
Threads: 156
Joined: Jan 2017
My barrel approach is to use two blocks of oak with a hole carved out, half in one block and half in the other, then clamp them down/together fiercely onto my B&D workbench holding the barrel in between. I made them from the time I was doing some savage barrel swaps. Use oak hardwood b/c it is stronger than pine at holding while clamped. Make sure there is a stretch of parallel barrel pipewall long enough to fit into your oaken slot.
Now this all being said I will confess that for AR barrel nuts I don't use this at all, instead I use the Wheeler AR receiver clam-shell clamp inside of my 5" vise... As far as torque on the barrel nut the ones I use don't need the gas tube indexing (like Midwest Ind's, etc) b/c they are smooth. And the 35-40 necessary to tighten down has not been a problem for me to achieve with this rig. If I were to go higher, then the oak blocks would be my choice.
And for muzzle brakes I use either accuwasher (some) or mostly jam nuts so torque gets applied between the jam nut and the brake, the barrel does not see any... and the MB stays flat without the distortion added when using a crush washer.
"Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"
Posts: 3,654
Threads: 17
Joined: Aug 2013
09-29-2019, 10:17 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-30-2019, 12:42 AM by Klem.)
FRB6.5 Wrote:The Brownells tool works "backwards" from the others. The torque wrench goes into the rear of it and you are to put your barrel nut wrench in the vise. I find it difficult to keep everything in place. The vise they use in their video is quite different in design than most people have access to so the wrench isn't going to lay flat and be supported like they show.
You can kludge it into sort of a reaction rod style with some 1/2" square bar stock, but ideally they would need welded together to be truly stable.
I see what you mean, they do have a weird design of vise in their video. I have a typical 4" bench vise and have used the Brownells no-frills rod on several types of handguard/barrel nuts without issue.
Barrel nuts with flats like the SLR Solo get held barrel-down with the flats in the jaws in the vise. This is the simplest method and you don't need an Armourers wrench. Or you can use it on traditional 'teeth' barrel nuts like in the first photo. Or you can mimic a Geiselle rod by clamping a socket driver in the vise and hold the rod upright. For use with brand-specific handguard wrenches like the three examples in the second photo.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]14710[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]14709[/ATTACH]
Never tried it, but a fourth method would be to clamp the torque wrench in the vise with the bar upright and use the Armourers wrench to apply the torque. If a socket wrench clamped in the vise works then a torque wrench will also work.
'Backwards', forwards, it makes no difference - just choose the best method for the job.
(Disclosure: I don't work for Brownells or have any conflict of interest in this advice. just can't see the point of paying twice as much for a torque rod).
Posts: 156
Threads: 20
Joined: Jul 2017
10-13-2019, 11:07 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2019, 11:25 PM by phishfood.)
Resurrecting this thread.
I will post a separate build thread and link to it here, where I will ask for advice on build components, etc.
Linky thingy here: http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...ight-build
But I do have another tool question.
Is there any real difference between roll pin punch sets? I need to get a set on the way for next weekend, so that I can proceed further.
Posts: 6,193
Threads: 170
Joined: Mar 2015
phishfood Wrote:Resurrecting this thread.
I will post a separate build thread and link to it here, where I will ask for advice on build components, etc.
Linky thingy here: http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...ight-build
But I do have another tool question.
Is there any real difference between roll pin punch sets? I need to get a set on the way for next weekend, so that I can proceed further.
Yes. Don't go cheap.
Posts: 415
Threads: 1
Joined: Oct 2018
phishfood Wrote:Resurrecting this thread.
I will post a separate build thread and link to it here, where I will ask for advice on build components, etc.
Linky thingy here: http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...ight-build
But I do have another tool question.
Is there any real difference between roll pin punch sets? I need to get a set on the way for next weekend, so that I can proceed further.
The bolt catch pin requires punches that are small in overall diameter or have been flattened. TBH the flattened Wheeler ones often will not stay straight depending on your lower, they are very wide. Little Crow has a very thin set:
https://www.littlecrowgunworks.com/store...p106089764
An alternative method is using 10" Knipex Parallel Jaw Pliers and tape up the jaws. They are pretty spendy though. https://www.amazon.com/Knipex-8603250-10...B000X4OG94
If you plan on trying different bolt catches the KNS pins with C-clips are the way to go. https://www.knsprecisioninc.com/product/...ining-pin/
The trigger guard pin can be done with standard roll pin punch sets, the Knipex pliers above, a small C-clamp or a few special made tools that operate similar to a C-clamp.
The gas tube roll pin can be done with standard roll pin punch sets but you will want a jig or something to hold the gas block in place. Someone else here showed a picture of some wood molding that had the right contour.
Posts: 156
Threads: 20
Joined: Jul 2017
A5BLASTER Wrote:Yes. Don't go cheap.
Any specific recommendations?
Posts: 415
Threads: 1
Joined: Oct 2018
phishfood Wrote:Any specific recommendations?
Grace is considered the standard for punches, drivers and bits. http://www.graceusatools.com/product-cat...egory_id=1
You will still find that you will want a specialty punch for the bolt catch pin though.
Posts: 1,624
Threads: 58
Joined: Jan 2018
I can tell you what not to get ....Wheeler Sent back every tool I ordered from them. I would say they they are a 1 shot item but some of the punches didn't get that far. Lapping tool was almost a disaster.
Posts: 6,193
Threads: 170
Joined: Mar 2015
phishfood Wrote:Any specific recommendations?
I forget who's I'm useing. They out in the shop and I just got back from deer camp tonight. I will go get the name of them tommorw for you.
Posts: 156
Threads: 20
Joined: Jul 2017
I ended up with a set from Real Avid. I will let The Horde know how they work out.
Posts: 1,397
Threads: 48
Joined: Jun 2019
I own many sets of grace tools, they work well for me and they are guaranteed for life.Just call Grace and they’ll send you a new one ,no questions asked.I cherish my grace tools as much is I cherish the vintage 6” Columbia vice I inherited.
I have several magazine well blocks ,the Magpul BEV is one. I also have a set of soft jaws I use for muzzle devices.In the past to install muzzle devices,I have used a piece of an old leather belt wrapped around the barrel ,works fine no scratches. It’s how my uncle did it back at the shop in the 70s . They didn’t have any specialty tools they successfully made their own.
Posts: 156
Threads: 20
Joined: Jul 2017
phishfood Wrote:I ended up with a set from Real Avid. I will let The Horde know how they work out. To follow up.
One build definitely is not a thorough test, but they did seem to do just fine. Nothing broke or bent.
They came with a hammer that has four interchangeable striking surfaces. One rubber, one plastic, one brass, and one steel. That worked well enough for driving pins, and for staking the castle nut. It also came with a pair of plastic forceps for holding pins. They worked, sorta, but a pair of needlenose pliers worked a lot better.
The 9/64" roll pin punch was bent out of the box. At first I was kinda pissed about that, until I figured out that it worked really well for the bolt catch roll pin. Don't know if they bent that punch on purpose for that reason, but it did work out well.
Everything came in a plastic case that you could mount to the wall if you wanted, to keep everything organized and close at hand.
|
