Stupid question. What is "soft setting" a target?

[Zeneffect]

Make sure it gets a +2” Extended Length Gas System, not standard Rifle Length Gas System.

its the extended length gas system. I dont believe Krieger offers any other gas length in the 28"



Estimated ship date is March 14th.

[Zeneffect]

Well, krieger missed that boat. Fortmeier bipod stuck in Los angeles... Friendly match is tomorrow so imma run what I brung. Going to run my 22" criterion and 130gr eldm + lvr as I found ok-ish speed and good accuracy + decent sd. My dope is dialed for all distances in question and I was there today ranging just to triple check.

I'll post match results, hoping to maybe top 10 for my class? I gotta figure there will be some crazies running 5.56 thinking it's going to do something to the turkeys or rams... this is california after all.

[LR1955]

Well, krieger missed that boat. Fortmeier bipod stuck in Los angeles... Friendly match is tomorrow so imma run what I brung. Going to run my 22" criterion and 130gr eldm + lvr as I found ok-ish speed and good accuracy + decent sd. My dope is dialed for all distances in question and I was there today ranging just to triple check.

I'll post match results, hoping to maybe top 10 for my class? I gotta figure there will be some crazies running 5.56 thinking it's going to do something to the turkeys or rams... this is california after all.

ZE:

How many in your class? He, he.

You got it with the 5.56 for that sport. They would have to balance those steels on marbles and hope a butterfly doesn't fly by within a few miles for them to fall over from 5.56.

You have more of a chance with the Grendel, for sure.

Wish you the best with your tournament!

LR-55

[Zeneffect]

ZE:

How many in your class? He, he.

You got it with the 5.56 for that sport. They would have to balance those steels on marbles and hope a butterfly doesn't fly by within a few miles for them to fall over from 5.56.

You have more of a chance with the Grendel, for sure.

Wish you the best with your tournament!

LR-55

25 in class, ended up 5th place with a 35. Learned a few things along the way. my dope was great... dont bring a clean rifle to competition because holy crap that was bad @500m before it settled in.. elevation was all over for the first few sighters (first round was the 500M rams), wear sunblock, bring giant jug of water, buy a sled and single load, whoever devises these matches is in league with the devil, was able to accurately read mirage and set windage appropriately. Not all the targets were "full sized." The last 3 of the turkeys, pigs, and rams were reduced sized targets. Bonus targets were either a 2"x4" plate or a squirrel. How I can manage to nail the squirrel, reduced rams, etc but still managed to actually miss 1 full sized ram completely is beyond my comprehension. I'd blame it on a flier but honestly i dont know what happened. The rest were rams no go down (ass shot preferred after failing to knock down 5 with shoulder shots). I know why I missed the mini pig and 1 turkey... nerves and not used to so much going on around me, definately was not fully in the zone today... clear misses and I was to balme.


I felt a little under-prepared, my dope sheet was laughable at best (still highly effective) but overall more fun than I had in a long time.

The match didnt come down to the rams though... what separated 1-3rd place was the "bonus" targets. snagging the 5th exceeded my expectations, but im still chasing consistency on the rams. I was most impressed by the as issued class as there was a 43 score. Stock iron sights holy wowzers that was amazing to witness.

Spots 1-3 were all wildcat, nothing 5.56 made it past 7th place. #1 spot was rocking a 6mm white oak armament space gun with this amazing neon green paint job.

Shooting conditions changed dramatically over the course of the match. At start, 1-2 mph winds left to right and about 50F. No idea about barometric pressure, mid match it is now 75F and winds picked up to 15-20mph gusts, constant 5-10 same left to right alltitude 550ft

This is what I brought for my turret adjustments. Everyone else had these cool journals with pictures and all kinds of stuff. I was squadded with the match director and he had a good laugh at it, but hey it worked well enough.



In retrospect, a 22" grendel will get the job done and should be capable of perfect score so long as the shooter is good enough and has the experience (not me at all.)
A spicy 123 could probably get the job done as well given how the ram weight is distributed+how the feet are set. A well placed shot can swing it off the perch (2 small rectangular plates about 2" wide welded to railroad track. Targets get set on these perches and it's exploitable. I think my squad partner was giving bad advice with the shoulder shot... previous experience showed me this does dick all and i made the same mistake again...) major lesson learned is to stop chasing those few fpe. It doesn't matter, setup and shot placement are the absolute key. The mythical 1000fpe is all lies, math can go to hell.

I will still go with the 28" when it arrives. 600-1000 yd match next month, I'm officially hooked.

My apologies for the ramble, this is mostly notes for myself to reference later

[grayfox]

Great going Zen! My little physics calc was just that - an idealized estimate. You got some torque by hitting the backside I imagine, but hey - real world is what counts!!
On a side note, I see your choice of Lever in the 130's... think I'm seeing that whatever CFE can do (in this case for a 130 grain) Lever can do with ~100 more fps. I've got a couple of CFE loads I might switch over to Lever under this theory and see how it goes.

[LR1955]

ZE:

I don't think the FPE stuff is all lies. Not sure the 1000 fpe stuff is the right number or how it is derived. I take all the mathematical evidence as just something more to steer me towards some piece of equipment, load, or technique. Empirical evidence is reality and if the math adds up in the end, well and good but math doesn't knock down the targets. Guess I should ask how many rams you shot down? That is empirical evidence.

I think it is a good idea to fowl the barrel before a match. For sure, it won't hurt anything. With a gas gun it will probably help due to the gas system.

Looking at the range it appears to pointed mostly to the North. Sun behind you is good. Doping wind off mirage is sometimes your only choice. OK if the winds are of some sort of value and are under 10. Flattens out the higher the wind and then you got to do stuff like using another indicator of direction and speed. I have turned my spotting scope until I picked up a boil to tell me the direction. From that I could tell if the wind shifted off that particular direction. Doping speed off mirage is not easy once the wind gets above about ten so get an anemometer and have it set up so you can see it from your prone position. I know all about the drawbacks of a wind reading at the firing position but will use it if I think it is the most dependable.

From the looks of your range I bet that the wind speed at your firing position will be close to what it is down range. I don't see any ridges close enough or high enough to your target banks to cause swirling. Any wind flags out there? Those would be pretty good to use on that range IMHO.

LR-55

[Zeneffect]

Oh I know the math is still valid to a degree the lies and go to hell were just venting. just finally got fed up with "do this, do that, that won't work, etc etc" and switched to "let's find out what works during a live competition" Not the brightest idea but it ended up with 2 extra ponts I wouldn't have had continuing the path I was taking. I'm not a smart person but when I get to the "make it work" stresses, usually I can make things work for me by recalling past experiences.

2 for 2 ass shot on the big rams, 0 for 4 on the shoulder, 1 complete miss (maybe it went through the horn?) the final 3 were mini so you could throw a rock and knock them over. The rest of the targets was rotate turret, point and shoot broadside. No wind flags at the steel range to make things more interesting. I found myself reading mirage and watching the smokers cigarette smoke.

Equipment wise... I came the least prepared of anyone I think. No kestrel (don't even own one), no log book, my rifle case doubled as my shooting mat. I brought a gun, ammo, gun case /shooting mat, 1 piece of paper, 2 magazines, chamber safety flag, bipod, and a pen. I'm not sure what the other guys had in their carts and boxes but it was a lot of stuff.

Next match is in May so hoping to improve

[Zeneffect]

Great going Zen! My little physics calc was just that - an idealized estimate. You got some torque by hitting the backside I imagine, but hey - real world is what counts!!
On a side note, I see your choice of Lever in the 130's... think I'm seeing that whatever CFE can do (in this case for a 130 grain) Lever can do with ~100 more fps. I've got a couple of CFE loads I might switch over to Lever under this theory and see how it goes.

It has been my experience that lvr will do everything cfe will do but provide more fps and use slightly less powder (approx .5gr) anything 123gr or heavier I'll use lvr. I get good SD quite consistently, accuracy is good, powder is forgiving (+-.1 will do very little) and meters very well. I can't speak to how temp sensitive it actually is, just that it is. 50F a 29.7gr load will produce 2450fps with 130gr berger ar otm, at 100F it was 100fps faster. I don't know if in the grand scheme of things if this is a lot, just that there was no audible difference, change in recoil, or classic signs of over pressure in the high heat. (I've run up to 30.1gr with the berger in 100+F weather and didn't feel like I was over pressure, just close based on what I could compare against factory loaded ammo. Keep in mind this is 22" and was loaded to 2.3 so ymmv but you should see improvement over cfe in the velocity dept.

in comparison though it is a much much dirtier powder and produces a lot of carbon. Hasn't been an issue for me as i clean up after 200 rounds though the barrel which is every other range trip just about. Keeping the rifle "wet" does well enough to allow the carbon to simply wipe off. If we look at the dreaded Ballistic simulators and pay attention to % powder burn, the soot and velocity increase seem to make sense. I don't believe that lvr and cfe should be right next to each other on the burn rate charts though. Something should fill that gap or they put a spacer there. Pretty close but there could easily be an intermediate powder between cfe and lvr.

[Zeneffect]

Last note... I found out when there are practice sessions.

Holy cow, these guys won't know what's coming if I can get to practice on the actual range to get everything dialed instead of doing it on the fly with only Konami codes to assist me while testing theory and calculated drop beyond 300yds (limit I have available to me to practice)

[LRRPF52]

A thing that can help with your DOPE card and reticle card is a Data Card Arm Board:




You did really well if that was your first match to place 5th.

[Zeneffect]

next match is next month and im prepping the 28" krieger. hopefully to do same 5th or better and armed with more knowledge and a better tool set. I bought one of those weatherflow meters (poor man's kestrel) to see how well it functions with strelock pro so I'll have a month to vet it, figure out how useful it is vs what I was doing (sort of educated guessing.) Practice being on Tuesdays every week I will get a couple opportounities to have a load developed and push it at the competition range during a practice to get the dope I need. I like that card, but I dont think I need it on an arm band. My shooting mat has a clear window to the left i can glance at while holding position.

and yes first match, competing at a high level or under intense pressure is nothing new to me and this was not it at all. I was the youngest guy there at age 40, was one of the few people that "brought enough gun," everyone was super nice, I had extremely low expectations going in and did not keep track of score so no real pressure on my end at all. Once I got sighted in and past foulers nerves settled and I was more confident in my shots. Things just went my way honestly. No mechanical issues, no failures, weather was nice... I couldnt have asked for a better first experience.

*edit*

I think I see now.. That is like dry erase marker on the plastic? If that is the case, I change my mind and will grab one because friggin useful.

[Zeneffect]

Another match Saturday, unsure about the rules. It seems to indicate 5.56 only for post-1945 small bore.. so I might be doing the stupid and running 5.56 hoping for a good wind to blow over the rams at the same exact moment of impact.

Guess who doesn't have a load developed for 5.56? :-D

Going to run Sig Sauer 77gr OTM box ammo if I can't run my 22" grendel. Luckily I do have some rounds downrange and know what to expect. (mostly)

Also no bipod or rear bags allowed. Front sandbags OK. Honestly can't tell too much difference between bipod or sandbag, feels pretty much the same when setup with more stability using sandbags.

[Zeneffect]

So, if anyone is interested..

Scored a 32 which gave me a 3rd. I say that's not bad for a rifle I only shot 2x before, with less than 100 rounds, using factory sig 5.56 77gr ammo.

Next week, it will be grendel time and I'm going to do my absolute damndest to try for perfect 40 +4. Let's see if the 123 eld @ 2700fps can get the job done. This is the "ar15 run what you brung" local match again, and I'm not going to be shamed by no dang rams. They all going down.


Changes made this match:

Jug of ice water to drink.

Setting bezel on watch for 10 min time limit

Stopping and resetting to slow down and only take good shots

Better dope card

Ran 8x magnification on all stages except for the 1/4 sized targets. Did this as I have a FFP scope, and it brought down the crosshairs to very fine lines while making mirage nearly imperceptible. It also helped me see my impacts or misses much easier than 20x.

Took out anemometer and grabbed wind data + pressure data between stages. Wind had shifted nearly 270 degrees over course of fire. Explains the bullet rise I was seeing and had to adjust for.

Came with a strategy and stuck to it. This is THE most important part.

[Sinclair]

Man o man, I envy you. Have fun, old age will sneak up upon you soon enough.

[Zeneffect]

By then hopefully the price for an automated press will have come down. Can't keep doing this on a single stage forever.

44 shots for record, 13 total sighters taken. Less than 60 total shots per match ideally, but I load 100 and it gets tedious.

Need to add for next week - bring own paint because its like spraying chalk using the stuff provided

Move sighter targets to the front of the hangar so it doesn't cast a shadow in the middle of the target.


Here is something though... I want to compete in the as issued class as well. Pre-1945 military rifles, not specific to US military mind you. This is with the janky sights and all. As issued.

What is your guy's opinion? Should I pursue the mighty Springfield, a Swiss, or a Swedish mauser? I saw a lot of Swiss cheese over the weekend and it got me wanting. For the size, they are very well balanced and deceptively light. I think the Swedish Mauser will let me keep playing the 6.5 game though and it wasn't nearly as prolific in the field that I saw which is something that I like.

[Old Bob]

By then hopefully the price for an automated press will have come down. Can't keep doing this on a single stage forever.

44 shots for record, 13 total sighters taken. Less than 60 total shots per match ideally, but I load 100 and it gets tedious.

Need to add for next week - bring own paint because its like spraying chalk using the stuff provided

Move sighter targets to the front of the hangar so it doesn't cast a shadow in the middle of the target.


Here is something though... I want to compete in the as issued class as well. Pre-1945 military rifles, not specific to US military mind you. This is with the janky sights and all. As issued.

What is your guy's opinion? Should I pursue the mighty Springfield, a Swiss, or a Swedish mauser? I saw a lot of Swiss cheese over the weekend and it got me wanting. For the size, they are very well balanced and deceptively light. I think the Swedish Mauser will let me keep playing the 6.5 game though and it wasn't nearly as prolific in the field that I saw which is something that I like.

At the Rifle & Pistol club I belong to we used to have a bi-monthly as-issued military rifle match. Pre 1945 wasn't a prerequisite. As long as it was a military issued rifle with iron sights, it was good to go. There were ARs, AKs, FALs, M1s & M1As in the mix but the majority of shooters were using Swedish Mausers. I used either a K98 8mm Mauser or my M1 Garand until I found a pristine 1903A3 at a gun show. The gun was immaculate & will shoot a 4" group at 200 yds from sand bags with my hand-rolled '06 ammo. It's my all-time favorite rifle.

Our matches were intended to be fun matches with BBQ or Pot-Luck for lunch afterwards. Our targets varied. We had steel hangers, silhouettes, balloons, clay pigeons & playing cards for targets. I wish we still had those fun shoots. Those were great days...

[Zeneffect]

https://youtu.be/cEFXupR5QpI
https://youtu.be/eLMv5R8lM5U
https://youtu.be/se0yEmVlzHM
https://youtu.be/ueaUPXoW07o

Bad setup on turkey #1. I pulled my rifle and reset.

Shot between legs on rams for one of them :-(

Missed perfect score due to stupid shooter errors, the gun was performing excellent.

Using 22" criterion setup with the 130gr Norma + lvr. I really need to try this combination out in the 28" krieger.

https://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthre...post292114

Trying again next month for that elusive 40.

[Zeneffect]

39.... ugh.

1 ram, off the butt and a smidgen high. No soft sets today, I brought the power! 130gr berger otm hybrid @2650 gets the job done.

[Zeneffect]

https://youtu.be/OotbUVPhhMY

39 points out of 40. 1 miss on the rams, looks to have went right a bit.

[Zeneffect]

Another Saturday, another match. Same format, reduced size "bonus" and last 3 are 1/4 sized. Should be fun. 28" krieger with the 130gr berger load ready to go.