Tactical Life posts that the military is changing to the 6.8 in SAW and M4

[stanc]

The AR is far Superior to the Aug or any other bull pup. Multi gun and 3 gun has proven which rifles are dominant. Speed, ergonomics, accuracy, recoil control and reliability, nothing is better than the AR Stoner rifle system.

AR15? Yech. Make mine M14 !!!

[video=youtube;N06ySsT2EKU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N06ySsT2EKU[/video]

[Klem]

AR15? Yech. Make mine M14 !!!

Ah yes, the 'taitsa pask' - The shortest serving standard issue rifle in US history. Have you ever tried putting an optic on one? If the answer is 'No' you are living in a previous century.

I have an old 1921 Lee Enfield 303, a venerable weapon for another time.

[stanc]

The shortest serving standard issue rifle in US history. Have you ever tried putting an optic on one? If the answer is 'No' you are living in a previous century.

Hey, I willingly admit I'm old school. I prefer wood and steel over plastic and aluminum. I also think .30 caliber is king. :eek:

This M1A was my all-time favorite rifle. I loved the fit, feel, and handling. Better than any other military rifle I've fired.

[Gusmeister]

The AR is far Superior to the Aug or any other bull pup. Multi gun and 3 gun has proven which rifles are dominant. Speed, ergonomics, accuracy, recoil control and reliability, nothing is better than the AR Stoner rifle system.

In classes and intensive training the guns start to pick themselves out. I have cooked my "training" Glock 17 dozens of time. A few thousand round days and many 500 round days. Many times the slide was hot enough to cook eggs on. But, if you swap the springs out every 5-10,000 rounds with an occasional clean/lube then it keeps running. There are many very good handguns out there but precious few that will take this abuse.

In classes and intensive training the rifles start to pick themselves out. Many of us shoot 1,000 round days and quality AR's put up with it over and over. That is if they are not filthy and well lubed. We typically see fewer problems with good AR's than with AK's. And if an AR goes down it is typically a quick easy fix. So I agree with Montana. Nothing against the other platforms and cartridges (love the Tavor, M14 and 308) but when you mix all the needs in and add a measure of abuse it's mighty hard to replace the AR platform and it's 60 years of refinement.

[n9nwo]

Hey, I willingly admit I'm old school. I prefer wood and steel over plastic and aluminum. I also think .30 caliber is king. :eek:

This M1A was my all-time favorite rifle. I loved the fit, feel, and handling. Better than any other military rifle I've fired.

It was the rifle that WW2 should of had. Had the M1 been with less wood and a BAR magazine it would have the perfect rifle for that war.

[Klem]

I also think .30 caliber is king. :eek:

Are you aware that the Sporting Rifle Match at Raton has a scoresheet with a box to tick for those shooting 308. They end up shooting amongst themselves because 308 is officially recognised as not as accurate as 6.5.

6.5 Grendel...21st Century.
308 and M14...20th Century.

Sticking doggedly to the belief that something is the best when clearly it is not is almost a metaphor, don't you think?

[NugginFutz]

Are you aware that the Sporting Rifle Match at Raton has a scoresheet with a box to tick for those shooting 308. They end up shooting amongst themselves because 308 is officially recognised as not as accurate as 6.5.

6.5 Grendel...21st Century.
308 and M14...20th Century.

Sticking doggedly to the belief that something is the best when clearly it is not is almost a metaphor, don't you think?

Don't trouble me with the facts, Klem. I've already made up my mind!

[stanc]

6.5 Grendel...21st Century.
308 and M14...20th Century.

LOL. I see you left out the M16/AR15, since it would be a bit awkward in your 21st Century/20th Century comparison.

Don't trouble me with the facts, Klem. I've already made up my mind!

I'm not saying that .308 WIN/7.62 NATO is the best rifle cartridge ever. Just that I'm a traditionalist, and like .30 caliber better than any other.

I grew up watching World War II and Korean War movies. The first military rifles I shot were the M1 carbine, M1 Garand, and M1941 Johnson.

And my high school ROTC unit had a M1919A6 LMG, which I thought was awesome!

As a result of all that, calibers smaller than .30 have always seemed a little...wrong.

[Klem]

LOL. I see you left out the M16/AR15, since it would be a bit awkward in your 21st Century/20th Century comparison.


I'm not saying that .308 WIN/7.62 NATO is the best rifle cartridge ever. Just that I'm a traditionalist, and like .30 caliber better than any other.

I grew up watching World War II and Korean War movies. The first military rifles I shot were the M1 carbine, M1 Garand, and M1941 Johnson.

And my high school ROTC unit had a M1919A6 LMG, which I thought was awesome!

As a result of all that, calibers smaller than .30 have always seemed a little...wrong.

Well, we're not exactly shooting 20th Century variants of the AR15 are we. But... what's the point of arguing with someone who never gives an inch? And in this case is invoking childhood memories as leverage on a 6.5 calibre forum. Hey, you got to go with what you know and are comfortable with I guess.

You do know there's an M14 forum for all the Boer War vets.

[stanc]

...what's the point of arguing with someone who never gives an inch?

:confused: Who's arguing? I didn't disagree with you.

[Klem]

:confused: Who's arguing? I didn't disagree with you.

Thanks for making my point. (I'm out)

[stanc]

Well, that's the first time I ever upset someone by not disagreeing with him...

[grayfox]

Stan has his faves just like anyone else, no need to knock him for that... me, I like 'em all. confess the 6.5's better but my 308 I have now (Savage BA stealth) is pretty darn good, afaic. I had a little time with a 1903 in the Nav but would have liked the M14 better I think (Not much choice when you're in boot camp)!! Bought a 1903 after I got stationed in Idaho...

[stanc]

A 1903? :eek: When did you go to boot camp, right after the Japs attacked Pearl Harbor??? LOL.

[NugginFutz]

My High School JROTC days allowed me the experience of drilling with both the 1903 Springfield and the M1 Garand. Trust me, the 03's were way better balanced and much lighter, when it came to Drill & Ceremonies. On the range, the 03's were about even with the M1's. When I got to boot camp, the issued rifle was the M16A1, which I absolutely loved and from which I have never looked back. While I still may obtain a CMP Garand (if they are still available), I just don't have the fondness that Stanc does for those venerable .30's.

My 2nd most accurate rifle is a CZ550 in .308, having recently been demoted by the performance of one of my 6.5 Grendels. Both of these rifles are quite competitive at the local 1000 yard range. I can also say that I would MUCH rather hump an M4 or one of its variants over hill and dale than either the above mentioned wood and steel relics.

[stanc]

I make it a practice to never trust anyone who says, "Trust me."

However, I fully agree with you on the weight and balance of the M1903 Springfield vs M1 Garand. (I owned an '03 briefly. Very briefly. That thing kicked like the proverbial mule, so I got rid of it after one range session.)

I didn't like the Garand all that much, but only because of the weight. Too heavy for my tastes.

My M1A was a pleasure to shoot. About the same weight as the '03, but without the bone-jarring kick.

But, the rifle I liked best for pure shooting enjoyment was my M1 carbine. I would MUCH rather hump it over hill and dale (and did just that, many times, when harassing the jackrabbit population in ths SoCal desert :eek, than an M4 or one of its variants. Even though it's a wood and steel relic, it's still much lighter.

[grayfox]

A 1903? :eek: When did you go to boot camp, right after the Japs attacked Pearl Harbor??? LOL.

After??
somewhere after the Great war! hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And Pershing was still around!!! JK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[grayfox]

Actually my memory cells are kinda fuzzy... it was in boot camp and my time w/ said piece was pretty short.
Didn't get to march around with it much, only got to the range 2 times, maybe 3...
(Marching band Company).
'Course not too many aboard ship either...
5"-38's were the small caliber in our battle group, but my time after boot was (briefly) on a Carrier, F4's, etc...
then on to SLBM's...

[montana]

In classes and intensive training the guns start to pick themselves out. I have cooked my "training" Glock 17 dozens of time. A few thousand round days and many 500 round days. Many times the slide was hot enough to cook eggs on. But, if you swap the springs out every 5-10,000 rounds with an occasional clean/lube then it keeps running. There are many very good handguns out there but precious few that will take this abuse.

In classes and intensive training the rifles start to pick themselves out. Many of us shoot 1,000 round days and quality AR's put up with it over and over. That is if they are not filthy and well lubed. We typically see fewer problems with good AR's than with AK's. And if an AR goes down it is typically a quick easy fix. So I agree with Montana. Nothing against the other platforms and cartridges (love the Tavor, M14 and 308) but when you mix all the needs in and add a measure of abuse it's mighty hard to replace the AR platform and it's 60 years of refinement.

I keep a bucket of water by me on hot summer days to cool down my STI when practising for an up coming match. I charge my slide with the forward serrations and when it gets too hot to touch, into the bucket it goes. I replace my recoil spring quite often since I run a lighter weight recoil spring. I also replace my magazine springs every 3 years or so. 300-350 round count is common for a practise session. Glocks are great and are my carry choice, but STI is king in my world of competition. Like any machine, maintenance and parts replacement is normal. AR rifles are great rifles, they can be easily built, repaired and modified for many different types of applications. I have to confess, "I do love to shoot my M1A1" and won my first heavy metal match with one. If open sights were the only choice, I would still pick the M1A1 over other 308 rifles.

[Sinclair]

A 1903? :eek: When did you go to boot camp, right after the Japs attacked Pearl Harbor??? LOL.

I have noticed that you Army and Marine Vets seem to ignore the fact that there are other branches of the Service and just because individual Combat with the enemy is not their primary role they get the left overs (from the previous war).