Finally got to the range after more than a month and took along my new Howa HB Grendel. Wasn't really range ready, had to steal a scope off another rifle, and the stock inletting still needs to be tweaked a bit. Only took one load, the AE 90 gr. TNT. Only other non-factory addition is a Precision Armaments M4-72 muzzle brake, I'm a wimp when it comes to rifle recoil, and my research and calculations told me the Grendel would be pushing my comfort zone.
Only put 15 rounds through it, nothing earth shattering, no bug holes at 500 yards out of the box, more like 1 to 1.5" at 100 yards with this particular load. Trigger is excellent but heavy, now that I've shot it, I'll go ahead and see about lightening it up a bit, I prefer 1.5 to 2 lbs. for a target rifle. The brake is amazingly effective, recoil with the brake was nearly non-existent, about like a hyper velocity .22 LR, and much less than my 13 lb. Savage .223. Without the brake, it's a different story, the recoil is quite sharp, sharp enough that I'd lose all interest after just a handful of shots. Only complaint with this brake is the backwash, every shot is accompanied by a blast of wind in your face. I'll happily trade wind in the face for recoil reduction, but I'll be looking at a different brake, my shooting partner has a VG6 for his Grendel build, and said I could give that a try on our next range trip.
My only other complaint is my stock choice, I went with a Boyd's Classic rather than the Pro Varmint I have on my Savage, and I regret that decision. I was thinking a more traditional stock would be a better choice for a rifle that might someday be called on as a hunter, but the truth is, it's probably never going to kill anything but paper or steel, and then mostly from a bench, so the PV would have been a better choice. Other than dropping the action in it, I still haven't touched the Classic, so if anyone is looking for one, drop me a line, I almost hit the order button on a PV last night, but I suspect it'll happen soon. Don't need 2 stocks for the same rifle. No pics at the moment, need to do some resizing, but will try to add one later.
That was my experience with the M4-72 as well, incredibly good brake but felt like an airplane prop-wash...
I switched now to all VG6-65 gammas, no prop wash but virtually the same MB recoil reductions. Really a good on for the money IMO.
I bedded my boyds pro varmint to the action, but TBT I've not shot it much since, for me it needs to be hunting rifle first, then good off the bench during practice. And the 2 AR style Grrrs I have are shooting rings around the Howa.
Not sure what I'm going to do with the howa.
I did put a Matthew's kydex on the stock and that did help my shooting of it. You might think if you want to do that regardless of the stock you wind up with.
The pro-varmint stock seems a bit bulky for toting around in the woods, found that out once I tried the same.
So all in all, looks like your experience matches up with mine...
what to do
what to do
"Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"
grayfox Wrote:That was my experience with the M4-72 as well, incredibly good brake but felt like an airplane prop-wash...
I switched now to all VG6-65 gammas, no prop wash but virtually the same MB recoil reductions. Really a good on for the money IMO.
I bedded my boyds pro varmint to the action, but TBT I've not shot it much since, for me it needs to be hunting rifle first, then good off the bench during practice. And the 2 AR style Grrrs I have are shooting rings around the Howa.
Not sure what I'm going to do with the howa.
I did put a Matthew's kydex on the stock and that did help my shooting of it. You might think if you want to do that regardless of the stock you wind up with.
The pro-varmint stock seems a bit bulky for toting around in the woods, found that out once I tried the same.
So all in all, looks like your experience matches up with mine...
what to do
what to do
Thanks for the info, sounds like I need to be on the lookout for a sale on the VG6-65. I pillar bedded the Pro Varmint my Savage is in, came out well, and it's a laser with the right ammo. Fortunately, that particular stock just fits me, it's like it was custom made just for me, and since that rifle was built as a dedicated bench gun, I don't care about bulk or weight, the more of either the better. My mistake with the Grendel was letting the slim possibility of it serving as a hunter caused me to overlook it's primary purpose, long(er) range target shooting. I should know better, there's no such thing as a do it all rifle, and any attempt to create one is just a recipe for a gun that doesn't do either job very well. Yes, I know there are exceptions, but they're just that, exceptions, not the norm. So I think another Pro Varmint is going to be on its way shortly, unless I go hog wild and order an Oryx chassis . Like you said...
I have a voodoo (Adams arms) muzzle brake and it works great and is cheap. No obnoxious concussion and lightly moves the rifle straight backward due to 2 small ports on the top.
I'm kinda baffled so many people use the m4-72 on a Grendel and complain. Just about any decent brake works since it's not a heavy recoil round.
roor Wrote:I have a voodoo (Adams arms) muzzle brake and it works great and is cheap. No obnoxious concussion and lightly moves the rifle straight backward due to 2 small ports on the top.
I'm kinda baffled so many people use the m4-72 on a Grendel and complain. Just about any decent brake works since it's not a heavy recoil round.
Like all things, recoil is subjective, some just have more tolerance for it that others. Lots of folks say a .243 or a .308 are light recoiling, well, not in my world . If I never shoot either caliber again, it'll be too soon. The .223 is fun to shoot, the Grendel without a brake, not so much. But hey, that's just me and my tolerance level. As to complaining about the M4-72, I'm not. It's incredibly effective, I suspect that it would make even a .308 tolerable for me to shoot. But yes, that blast of air in the face is distracting, at least in my application. I think a longer barrel would make it much less so, but I don't have any way to test that at the moment. So I'm going to try a different brake on my Grendel, if it's effective but without the prop wash, great, if not, I'll just have to get used to the M4-72. Later.
daved20319 Wrote:Like all things, recoil is subjective, some just have more tolerance for it that others. Lots of folks say a .243 or a .308 are light recoiling, well, not in my world . If I never shoot either caliber again, it'll be too soon. The .223 is fun to shoot, the Grendel without a brake, not so much. But hey, that's just me and my tolerance level. As to complaining about the M4-72, I'm not. It's incredibly effective, I suspect that it would make even a .308 tolerable for me to shoot. But yes, that blast of air in the face is distracting, at least in my application. I think a longer barrel would make it much less so, but I don't have any way to test that at the moment. So I'm going to try a different brake on my Grendel, if it's effective but without the prop wash, great, if not, I'll just have to get used to the M4-72. Later.
Have the m4-72 on my 20 inch howa. I can honestly say I have never experienced the wind in the face that a few members here say they get from that brake.
Sting concussion to be felt throw the body for sure but I have never felt wind from the brake on my face.
I'm wondering if some of the guys useing it have it installed upside down.
daved20319 Wrote:Like all things, recoil is subjective, some just have more tolerance for it that others. Lots of folks say a .243 or a .308 are light recoiling, well, not in my world . If I never shoot either caliber again, it'll be too soon. The .223 is fun to shoot, the Grendel without a brake, not so much. But hey, that's just me and my tolerance level. As to complaining about the M4-72, I'm not. It's incredibly effective, I suspect that it would make even a .308 tolerable for me to shoot. But yes, that blast of air in the face is distracting, at least in my application. I think a longer barrel would make it much less so, but I don't have any way to test that at the moment. So I'm going to try a different brake on my Grendel, if it's effective but without the prop wash, great, if not, I'll just have to get used to the M4-72. Later.
Not trying to bash being recoil sensitive because I'm super pistol and shotgun recoil sensitive. Keeping things relative, you don't need the best brake for Grendel compared to something like 30-06. Most people see the m4-72 as the gold standard and for good reason but most well designed brakes will effectively behave the same in recoil reduction.
A5BLASTER Wrote:Have the m4-72 on my 20 inch howa. I can honestly say I have never experienced the wind in the face that a few members here say they get from that brake.
Sting concussion to be felt throw the body for sure but I have never felt wind from the brake on my face.
I'm wondering if some of the guys useing it have it installed upside down.
Interesting, I haven't shot it much, only 15 rounds, but I never noticed the concussion, just the wind. Pretty sure I have it right side up, but now you have me second guessing myself, will be heading out to the shop just to verify. If it turns our you're right, I'll let you know. Later.
roor Wrote:Not trying to bash being recoil sensitive because I'm super pistol and shotgun recoil sensitive. Keeping things relative, you don't need the best brake for Grendel compared to something like 30-06. Most people see the m4-72 as the gold standard and for good reason but most well designed brakes will effectively behave the same in recoil reduction.
I realize I don't need the best for the Grendel, but if it's priced the same or less than second best, why not? None of the reviews I found online made any mention of that blast of wind to the face, although I did find mention here later, but didn't understand what folks were saying. Anyway, it's all a learning experience, right ? And as someone older and wiser once said, " it's only money ". More later.
There's always the APA lil B***rd brake, about $150 or so... used by lots of the top 50 PRS shooters, according to the PRS blog.
I have one of those on my 308 and it works just as advertised.
But mostly I'm using the VG6 series ones, work very well and cost 50-75 bucks...
my AR feels like a 22, the 6.5's all good, grendels and creedmoors,
anyway. economical and great recoil and muzzle rise reductions.
But research your own and try a few, you'll find one that works for you.
edit to add: there's also a difference in the weight some of these put on the muzzle tip...
"Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"
06-06-2019, 06:41 PM (This post was last modified: 06-06-2019, 06:46 PM by BobinNC.)
I like VG6 Gamma muzzle brake. I have their 65 version on my Tikka 260 Rem. On my Grendel I went with the VG6 Gamma 300 BO brake I had on hand from a aborted 300 BO project. It's a bit shorter and lighter than the 65 brake, but works just fine. Tests have shown you only lose at most about 1% to 3% of recoil reduction using a larger 30 cal brake on a 6.5mm bore. I use a Jam nut to install both instead of the supplied crush washer. A jam nut makes indexing a snap.
06-23-2019, 05:22 PM (This post was last modified: 06-24-2019, 03:55 PM by firefly.)
I have the std barrel mini action in a pro varmint stock, I dont use a moderater as I do not find the recoil to be a problem, compared to my marlin 45/70 it is a pussycat. I am still working up a good load using a 120 grain match bullet, my best group so far is 5 shots into .45 inches at 50 metres. Correction that should be 0.36 inches, 5 shots at 50 metres.[ATTACH=CONFIG]14401[/ATTACH]
Most of my threaded barrels have thread protectors.I have a couple of Hybrid muzzle breaks I hand tighten,so then can easily be removed.
The guys @ the club’s 600 yrd range at the club don’t like muzzle breaks next to them when they shoot.It is a prone only range.And sometimes we’re packed tight(3ft apart?)But still,I am not a fan of that rule.
. Like you said...
? And as someone older and wiser once said, " it's only money 
