Stolivar Wrote:shot at 100 yards. but I had no more good ammo to shoot it at 100. going to get more sst and elds and maybe some fusion and see what it will do at 100 yards
Where can I get Fusion ammo in 6.5 Grendel? My 243 loves the Fusion ammo and it is faster and more reliable than Hornady for that rifle, and it's significantly cheaper. Couldn't miss a 4 inch target at 360 yards this weekend with that ammo. I'm dying to get similar results with my Grendel, but that's going to take some effort.
Its availability comes and goes, usually have to look on ammoseek to see if it's online somewhere. Otherwise the big online's or box stores like Midway, etc who don't show up on ammoseek...
"Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"
grayfox Wrote:Its availability comes and goes, usually have to look on ammoseek to see if it's online somewhere. Otherwise the big online's or box stores like Midway, etc who don't show up on ammoseek...
No hits on ammoseek. Midway does show that they carry it but out of stock. I'll keep looking though. Thanks for the help!
04-27-2019, 04:23 AM (This post was last modified: 04-27-2019, 04:46 AM by Hollis.)
I have some good news and bad news.
I have 2 pics of my group shooting at 200 yards. See picture 1: This is well under 1 MOA (aoubt 1/2 MOA) and right on target! That's the good news.
The bad news is when I zoom out and show the other 3 shots.
I was using Hornday Black ELD Match 123 grain.
This really isn't a terrible group, but it was, by far, the best group for the day, and I have to go through a lot of rounds to get any semblance of consistency in order to make scope adjustments. I shot one shot and I'm 1 mil right and 1 mil high. I shoot again before adjusting my scope and now I'm 1 mil low and to the left. Before you know it, I've blown through $20 of ammo! And the goal here is to save money!
When I use Wolf, the spread at 100 yards was 8 or more inches. When I shoot my Radical Firearms 7.62x39 upper with same lower at same place and same distance with the cheapest Wolf ammo I can get, I can shoot a 5 shot group at 1.5" at worst (okay, occasionally a 2" flyer, but that isn't very common).
Does anyone have any suggestions about break-in? Do I still keep shooting with expectation of improved group or do I return to BCA for another round?
I have 2 pics of my group shooting at 200 yards. See picture 1: This is well under 1 MOA (aoubt 1/2 MOA) and right on target! That's the good news.
The bad news is when I zoom out and show the other 3 shots.
I was using Hornday Black ELD Match 123 grain.
This really isn't a terrible group, but it was, by far, the best group for the day, and I have to go through a lot of rounds to get any semblance of consistency in order to make scope adjustments. I shot one shot and I'm 1 mil right and 1 mil high. I shoot again before adjusting my scope and now I'm 1 mil low and to the left. Before you know it, I've blown through $20 of ammo! And the goal here is to save money!
When I use Wolf, the spread at 100 yards was 8 or more inches. When I shoot my Radical Firearms 7.62x39 upper with same lower at same place and same distance with the cheapest Wolf ammo I can get, I can shoot a 5 shot group at 1.5" at worst (okay, occasionally a 2" flyer, but that isn't very common).
Does anyone have any suggestions about break-in? Do I still keep shooting with expectation of improved group or do I return to BCA for another round?
This is a good BCA barrel, what ever you do don't return it. If you take the average of your two group you have about 1 MOA.
I had a BCA that was a 3-4 MOA, but clean bore single cold shot has about half that size at 100 yards. The BCA barrel may be effected by heat, even with a few shots. Looking at your two groups the vertical distance looks good, could be wind effecting the second group.
Take your choice: Guys playing slots thinking "this next pull will get me to break even", or playing the BCA-lottery.... same thing pretty much.
Substandard barrel but cheap, turns out to be more expensive in money and time -- this is a good example of that.
I know I'm a slightly better than average shooter, not an expert marksman by any means, but when I have a substandard barrel/rifle, it shows, so I don't waste time on them. I want the barrel, trigger, and scope to be better than I am so my results will be more predictable, consistent and accurate. Other folks may think otherwise, after all, that's why the slots industry makes so much money.
Time to cut your losses, imo, and find a pipe that you can respect.
"Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"
grayfox Wrote:Take your choice: Guys playing slots thinking "this next pull will get me to break even", or playing the BCA-lottery.... same thing pretty much.
Substandard barrel but cheap, turns out to be more expensive in money and time -- this is a good example of that.
I know I'm a slightly better than average shooter, not an expert marksman by any means, but when I have a substandard barrel/rifle, it shows, so I don't waste time on them. I want the barrel, trigger, and scope to be better than I am so my results will be more predictable, consistent and accurate. Other folks may think otherwise, after all, that's why the slots industry makes so much money.
Time to cut your losses, imo, and find a pipe that you can respect.
I'm going to have to agree with what gray said completely.
Keep the barrel and try some other grendel loads. I had great results with Hornady Black box
I would stay away from wolf ammo, especially if you plan to shoot further than 50 yards or group better than throwing a baseball at your target. Clean up your barrel, use good factory ammo or hand roll your own. I had great results with the black box.
I have one BCA barrel and its a great barrel, I bought it before realizing the quality issues, so it will not be repeated.
Cereal Thriller Wrote:Keep the barrel and try some other grendel loads. I had great results with Hornady Black box
I would stay away from wolf ammo, especially if you plan to shoot further than 50 yards or group better than throwing a baseball at your target. Clean up your barrel, use good factory ammo or hand roll your own. I had great results with the black box.
I have one BCA barrel and its a great barrel, I bought it before realizing the quality issues, so it will not be repeated.
But the Wolf ammo is a lot more affordable and I can go out to 375 yards with my 7.62x39 with Wolf (or Monarch=same thing?) and get consistent shots on a 10" target. The lower price per shot also lets me experiment/try/study/learn more affordably and then go to the expensive ammo when I've put it all together. I don't need the Wolf ammo to give sub MOA; a 2 MOA with occasional flyer <3 MOA is fine. If I can only shoot the expensive ammo, then I'll be shooting a lot less and not getting as much out of the upper as I would like.
That's what I do with my 243. I have the cheap (relatively speaking) Monarch ammo for zeroing, testing, etc. and once I have everything "figured out," I start shooting the good ammo and go out to longer distances. I really enjoy this and want to replicate it (with even cheaper ammo) with the Grendel.
04-28-2019, 05:58 PM (This post was last modified: 04-28-2019, 06:00 PM by Hollis.)
Jimla Wrote:This is a good BCA barrel, what ever you do don't return it. If you take the average of your two group you have about 1 MOA.
I had a BCA that was a 3-4 MOA, but clean bore single cold shot has about half that size at 100 yards. The BCA barrel may be effected by heat, even with a few shots. Looking at your two groups the vertical distance looks good, could be wind effecting the second group.
I would agree with you if this were the typical group, but this was the only group that gave me hope. The three shots make up an excellent group at 200 yards and I would be thrilled to have a Grendel barrel that could do that consistently.
These were not the first three shots that were good followed by the outer three. The barrel was plenty warm on all the shots. It wasn't that I had good shots at first and then bad shots as the barrel heated. It pretty much alternated from good shot then bad shot.
I'm going to continue to figure this out. And I very much appreciate the help from all you here! I do believe I'm going to get acceptable groups from my great deal BCA eventually.
grayfox Wrote:Take your choice: Guys playing slots thinking "this next pull will get me to break even", or playing the BCA-lottery.... same thing pretty much.
Substandard barrel but cheap, turns out to be more expensive in money and time -- this is a good example of that.
I know I'm a slightly better than average shooter, not an expert marksman by any means, but when I have a substandard barrel/rifle, it shows, so I don't waste time on them. I want the barrel, trigger, and scope to be better than I am so my results will be more predictable, consistent and accurate. Other folks may think otherwise, after all, that's why the slots industry makes so much money.
Time to cut your losses, imo, and find a pipe that you can respect.
You make a good point, but I do have to give it to BCA customer support. They really make you feel are a top priority for them and they are willing to do whatever it takes to make me happy. Really surprising to get such great customer service for budget prices.
BCA is going to let me switch the nitirided barrel for stainless steel, which is what I want anyhow if what I was told about the nitrided barrels only being "treated" on the outside and not in the bore. And my goal with this upper is accuracy and ability to shoot further distances with my AR. My closed quarter training/shooting will be done with my 7.62x39. So I'm not expecting high round count through this barrel, where the properly nitrided barrel would be an advantage over the stainless steel.
Hollis Wrote:But the Wolf ammo is a lot more affordable and I can go out to 375 yards with my 7.62x39 with Wolf (or Monarch=same thing?) and get consistent shots on a 10" target. The lower price per shot also lets me experiment/try/study/learn more affordably and then go to the expensive ammo when I've put it all together. I don't need the Wolf ammo to give sub MOA; a 2 MOA with occasional flyer <3 MOA is fine. If I can only shoot the expensive ammo, then I'll be shooting a lot less and not getting as much out of the upper as I would like.
That's what I do with my 243. I have the cheap (relatively speaking) Monarch ammo for zeroing, testing, etc. and once I have everything "figured out," I start shooting the good ammo and go out to longer distances. I really enjoy this and want to replicate it (with even cheaper ammo) with the Grendel.
You make a good point, but I do have to give it to BCA customer support. They really make you feel are a top priority for them and they are willing to do whatever it takes to make me happy. Really surprising to get such great customer service for budget prices.
BCA is going to let me switch the nitirided barrel for stainless steel, which is what I want anyhow if what I was told about the nitrided barrels only being "treated" on the outside and not in the bore. And my goal with this upper is accuracy and ability to shoot further distances with my AR. My closed quarter training/shooting will be done with my 7.62x39. So I'm not expecting high round count through this barrel, where the properly nitrided barrel would be an advantage over the stainless steel.
They do have a good customer support team, but you have very little chance getting a better barrel. Customer service only handles the phone this gives a false impression they can fix a problem, the problem is in the manufacturing, testing, and repair departments. I spent hours searching posts about BCA when I had problems with my BCA upper, I never found a post that a person got a barrel that worked after returning one. Most common result of BCA posts that people gave up and replaced the barrel with Monster Barrel and they are happy. Some lucky few get a barrel that works they first time, the problem seems to be with 6.5 Grendel Models, many reports from people that other chambers work great 300BA and 5.56 Nato . Three cases of people tried 3 to 4 times to get BCA fix the problem but in the end got a refund after waisting hundreds of dollars of ammo trying to get it to work. Return it and get your money back if it is not too late.
Hollis Wrote:You make a good point, but I do have to give it to BCA customer support. They really make you feel are a top priority for them and they are willing to do whatever it takes to make me happy. Really surprising to get such great customer service for budget prices.
BCA is going to let me switch the nitirided barrel for stainless steel, which is what I want anyhow if what I was told about the nitrided barrels only being "treated" on the outside and not in the bore. And my goal with this upper is accuracy and ability to shoot further distances with my AR. My closed quarter training/shooting will be done with my 7.62x39. So I'm not expecting high round count through this barrel, where the properly nitrided barrel would be an advantage over the stainless steel.
Hope truly springs eternal!
Nice to hear they have a nice customer service, but this does not make up for the mfg+QC issues that led you to this point. For my money I disagree with your choice but certainly respect your right to make it, and wish you get a decent barrel out of all this...... but I still think you're rolling the dice in a cooked game!!! But hopefully, hopefully...
"Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"
grayfox Wrote:Hope truly springs eternal!
Nice to hear they have a nice customer service, but this does not make up for the mfg+QC issues that led you to this point. For my money I disagree with your choice but certainly respect your right to make it, and wish you get a decent barrel out of all this...... but I still think you're rolling the dice in a cooked game!!! But hopefully, hopefully...
I appreciate your input. I took the risk and will see this one through. If I had to do it over, I would have probably paid extra to get a more reliable barrel. The rest of this BCA upper is really nice and the customer service is more than willing to work with me until I'm happy. The only cost for me is time and money on ammo. This is significant though so if the stainless steel barrel doesn't give me accuracy I'm looking for (or hope that it will get me there) after one box of ammo, it will be time to consider a new barrel. I don't have the equipment to replace my barrel but I'll figure something out if it comes to that.
But, yes, I am a very optimistic person - to a fault at times. That is both a blessing and a curse. But I'm still thinking I'm going to get a winner with the next upper I get. They already shipped it so it won't be too long before I find out. We'll see soon enough.
I built my own "cheap" ar using a bca 18" ss heavy 5r barrel, anderson upper and lower receivers, brownells bcg. I later installed a
3# velocity trigger. I can express how pleased i am with thi setup. It is moa at 100 yards with my handload of 28.5 grains rl15, hornady 123sst @ 2415fps or 30 grains cfe 223 @ 2420 fps. I use both loads in hornady 6.5 grendel or starline brass. I did not get these results right away while working up loads but when i found these 2 loads they were really close to moa. Wheni installed the velocity trigger everything came together. I am now attempting to get bca to make a 20" 30arx barrel but not having much luck.
Hollis Wrote:I appreciate your input. I took the risk and will see this one through. If I had to do it over, I would have probably paid extra to get a more reliable barrel. The rest of this BCA upper is really nice and the customer service is more than willing to work with me until I'm happy. The only cost for me is time and money on ammo. This is significant though so if the stainless steel barrel doesn't give me accuracy I'm looking for (or hope that it will get me there) after one box of ammo, it will be time to consider a new barrel. I don't have the equipment to replace my barrel but I'll figure something out if it comes to that.
But, yes, I am a very optimistic person - to a fault at times. That is both a blessing and a curse. But I'm still thinking I'm going to get a winner with the next upper I get. They already shipped it so it won't be too long before I find out. We'll see soon enough.
I did not buy BCA because of the price, but because their 1 MOA warranty alone. The one I replaced it with cost much more, it has a Match 20" Faxon Heavy Fluted barrel, amazingly lighter than the 18" BCA model. I get to try it out Wednesday weather permitting.
The three bad BCA uppers I had, all seemed well built and cycled well, I never tried a stainless steel because BCA claim they were least accurate models they sold. Before buying my BCA I asked their customer support team which barrel were the most accurate. BCA email comment was "As far as the best upper for accuracy - an 18" with either Parkerized (P) or Melonite (M) finish." They claimed their stainless steel barrels were the less accurate than their 4150 barrels.
Please share photo of your shot groups when you get the next one, good and bad.
Jimla Wrote:I did not buy BCA because of the price, but because their 1 MOA warranty alone. The one I replaced it with cost much more, it has a Match 20" Faxon Heavy Fluted barrel, amazingly lighter than the 18" BCA model. I get to try it out Wednesday weather permitting.
The three bad BCA uppers I had, all seemed well built and cycled well, I never tried a stainless steel because BCA claim they were least accurate models they sold. Before buying my BCA I asked their customer support team which barrel were the most accurate. BCA email comment was "As far as the best upper for accuracy - an 18" with either Parkerized (P) or Melonite (M) finish." They claimed their stainless steel barrels were the less accurate than their 4150 barrels.
Please share photo of your shot groups when you get the next one, good and bad.
The lowest prices backed up with a 1 MOA guarantee along with a promo code from 704 Tactical is what led me to get my BCA Grendel upper.
I'm surprised the BCA team said the Melonite or Parkerized is more accurate. I am still scratching my head about what the same folks said about the Melonite barrels only being "treated" on the outside and not inside. This comment just causes me more "scratching of head."
I was in a rush the last time I was at the range, but, hopefully, I'm going to be able to take pics and video my next time out with the BCA Grendel to report back here.
Keep me posted about your new set up. Did you just replace the barrel or did you get an entire new upper with the Faxon barrel?
drykilned Wrote:I built my own "cheap" ar using a bca 18" ss heavy 5r barrel, anderson upper and lower receivers, brownells bcg. I later installed a
3# velocity trigger. I can express how pleased i am with thi setup. It is moa at 100 yards with my handload of 28.5 grains rl15, hornady 123sst @ 2415fps or 30 grains cfe 223 @ 2420 fps. I use both loads in hornady 6.5 grendel or starline brass. I did not get these results right away while working up loads but when i found these 2 loads they were really close to moa. Wheni installed the velocity trigger everything came together. I am now attempting to get bca to make a 20" 30arx barrel but not having much luck.
Thanks for your input. I just use factory ammo (usually cheap steel ammo) and mil spec trigger and get very good results with my 7.62x39 upper - but consider hitting 10" steel target consistently at 375 yards "good results" while not measuring groups. I was hoping to get better accuracy while being able to go out to further distances with my AR with a Grendel upper. Still hoping to do that without having to hand load my ammo and buy new trigger. We will see.
Hollis Wrote:Keep me posted about your new set up. Did you just replace the barrel or did you get an entire new upper with the Faxon barrel?
I got a complete upper, it's purpose is hunting rifle so I only needed a 1.5 MOA gun with SST Ammo. I did not want install a barrel and gunsmiths are in short supply at my location. I liked the 20" because it was lighter than most 18" barrels. It also allowed greater muzzle velocity so I could use a 308 BDC scope for ranging.
