Help me before I give up on the Grendel altogether

[m1a convert]

I am having a hell of a time getting this cartridge to be reliable in my AR15. Here is the Saga:

I built two rifles. One is built with a Satern barrel and one is a Faxon barrel. Both have type II bolts. I purchased 10 E-Lander mags as well. I have some of the old 123 gr Wolf Gold softpoint ammo I wanted to use up. Both guns have FTF's multiple times per mag with this ammo. The jam is always the nose of the round hitting into the top of the chamber with the base of the round still in the mags and usually below the mags feedlips. The bolt is pressing against the middle of the cartridge case. This has the round that is trying to chamber stuck at 45 degree angle.

I thought that maybe it is the blunt shape and lead nose of the 123gr soft point that was causing the issue so I bought a case of Hornady Black 123gr match rounds with the polymer tip. Both guns would have the exact same FTF with that ammo as well. So I thought, maybe I need to use a lower grain weight and FMJ to get better results. I ordered a case of Wolf 100gr FMJ. Again the same jams. So, I thought maybe I need to increase the reliability by running a VLTOR A5 stock system. So I installed it to replace the Carbine buffer. The FTFs are still happening.

So what I have is two different rifles with two different buffer styles tried. Three types of ammo and multiple mags of what are supposedly the most reliable magazine option and I am getting the same FTF with all of it.

What am I missing. I really really want to like this cartridge but this is killing me. Any ideas what is causing this and how to fix it?

[Cereal Thriller]

try a different mag

have read on ar15.com in the past of E-landers causing F2F issues.

[m1a convert]

I thought E-Lander were the most reliable 6.5 mags. Who else makes a high quality Grendel mag?

[m1a convert]

I purchased some Xtra power magazine springs to see if presenting the round faster helps.

What else should I try?

[Bigs28]

Your common denominator is the magazine. I use c product defense mags.

[Rosecrans1]

On that mag you have, take a Dremmel tool, (or Harbor Freight if you are like me), and file down the front flat section below where the bullet feeds. Look for an uneven surface where the metal overlaps. I did this to two ASC mags and three out of four Elanders I bought from Alexander Arms due to misfeeds. All but one mag now works. Don't forget to load that mag up and let it sit for a week or two also.
Check out this link on fixing feed issues.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Axr5m1Daxc

Do not take the mag down quite as far as this guy does. Only take it down and file the edge smooth until you get what you want.
I know! You shouldn't have to do these things but................................

[LR1955]

I am having a hell of a time getting this cartridge to be reliable in my AR15. Here is the Saga:

I built two rifles. One is built with a Satern barrel and one is a Faxon barrel. Both have type II bolts. I purchased 10 E-Lander mags as well. I have some of the old 123 gr Wolf Gold softpoint ammo I wanted to use up. Both guns have FTF's multiple times per mag with this ammo. The jam is always the nose of the round hitting into the top of the chamber with the base of the round still in the mags and usually below the mags feedlips. The bolt is pressing against the middle of the cartridge case. This has the round that is trying to chamber stuck at 45 degree angle.

I thought that maybe it is the blunt shape and lead nose of the 123gr soft point that was causing the issue so I bought a case of Hornady Black 123gr match rounds with the polymer tip. Both guns would have the exact same FTF with that ammo as well. So I thought, maybe I need to use a lower grain weight and FMJ to get better results. I ordered a case of Wolf 100gr FMJ. Again the same jams. So, I thought maybe I need to increase the reliability by running a VLTOR A5 stock system. So I installed it to replace the Carbine buffer. The FTFs are still happening.

So what I have is two different rifles with two different buffer styles tried. Three types of ammo and multiple mags of what are supposedly the most reliable magazine option and I am getting the same FTF with all of it.

What am I missing. I really really want to like this cartridge but this is killing me. Any ideas what is causing this and how to fix it?

M1AC:

A couple of things. First off -- this goes back to the early days of the Grendel when this was happening. Alexander uses a carbine feedramp and not one made for the full length rifle. I have a feeling this detail is the problem since it was the major problem with feeding when the Grendel came out. You can also polish the feedramp but I do not know the process.

I do not think it the magazine but magazines are cheap and you can buy a different brand and try it. I still think it is a rifle feedramp and not a carbine feedramp.

It will not make a bit of a difference what bolt you use as long as the barrel is headspaced for that bolt.

Do not shoot the Wolf 123 grain Soft Point through your rifles. This was the only round of ammo that John Paul wrote was dangerous in his rifles and it is dangerous. The jacket fowls horribly and the powder finishes up the job. This is the only round of Grendel ammo I know of that fowls so badly that it will cause a build up of gilding metal and carbon in your barrel which will lead to high pressures and a severely damaged rifle.

LR55

[m1a convert]

So the Satern barrel was one of the early barrels. Probably purchased around 2008. The Faxon barrel was only purchased a few months ago. Both barrels are exhibiting the same problem. Do you think both of them have rifle feed ramps? If so, how do I change out the extension or is there another solution?

[rabiddawg]

Here is my story.

Alexander arm built rifle. Ran fine for several years then developed an intermittent problem like you described. I tried everything. Different mags, cleaned and recleaned, changed ejector and extractor just in case. Then one day I noticed a bit of smug around the gas block. Gunsmith friend said it was normal but I changed the rollpin type block to a split style adjustable and solved the problem.

As I was adjusting the gas I actually duplicated the problem. Without enough gas the bolt doesn’t travel far enough back to pick up the rim of the case. As it goes back toward the chamber it slides the round with it until it jams. As I added more gas the gun picked up the round and fed fine. The I tried to drop the empty mag and it wouldn’t fall. Turns out I was still under gassed and the bolt was catching on the mag not on the bolt catch. Another turn or two ( or click) and it was up and running til this day.

[m1a convert]

I don't think it is under gassed as the last round hold open operates fine on both uppers and I have had the same problem on two different uppers with 3 different ammunition options.

[gold51]

I own a Kel-tec 22 magnum pistol, PMR-30 and it shoots great. Others who own the same pistol call it the jamOmatic.
The reasons for jamming generally came down to ammo brand or bullet style, feed ramp and magazine problems. - some mags were found to have differences to the molded rib that holds the mag in place that caused a loose magazine. - injection die wear?
Try applying some case lube to the cartridges to reduce sliding friction, that might alter the chamber feeding geometry- a dab of Prussian blue, or felt tip marker ink applied to the feed ramp might show up a problem, too. Good Luck.
Once you have found something that alleviates the jams, you can hopefully then find the root cause for the jamming.
A new 10 round single stack Grendel mag is coming out this year-

[GSPHunter]

The jam is always the nose of the round hitting into the top of the chamber with the base of the round still in the mags and usually below the mags feedlips. The bolt is pressing against the middle of the cartridge case. This has the round that is trying to chamber stuck at 45 degree angle.

m1a, I have a 14.5" sabre barrel that had this problem. It became pretty clear that the bolt was running to fast for the magazine to keep up. Going to a H3 buffer helped a little, but the final solution for me was to install an 8-32 set screw into my sight assembly. (couldn't change the block easily due to the permanently installed flash suppressor) My 2 cents is that an adjustable gas block will get your rifle running.

[LR1955]

So the Satern barrel was one of the early barrels. Probably purchased around 2008. The Faxon barrel was only purchased a few months ago. Both barrels are exhibiting the same problem. Do you think both of them have rifle feed ramps? If so, how do I change out the extension or is there another solution?

M1A:

Yes, without seeing a picture of them, I would suspect they are barrel extensions using the rifle feed ramps and not the M-4 feed ramps.

You can do a search on the internet and find pictures of each if you don't already know the difference.

Or you can take a picture and post it to the forum for us to see and we will tell you.

If I am correct, the first thing I would do is to replace the rifle barrel extension with a M-4 barrel extension.

Your problem was not new and this was the primary cause of the problem you describe.

One thing I wouldn't do is screw around with the other things until I was sure the barrel extensions had M-4 feedramps.

LR55

[VASCAR2]

It does sound like a timing issue associated to improper gas. If this is an 18” Satern barrel they are notorious for having over sized gas ports. It is difficult to determine if a rifle is under gassed or over gassed because the symptoms can be the same. It is entirely possible the Satern barrel is over gassed and the Faxon is under gassed but both are behaving the same.

The mag springs in the E-Lander mags are very stout and I doubt they are the problem. I would double check the gas block alignment on the faxon barrel and make sure the gas block is centered over the gas port. It is a good idea to measure the gas port to check if it is the proper size. A an easy way to measure the gas port is with small drill bits and find one that fits or is close. It has happened with manufacturers have drilled the wrong size gas port in barrels whether to small or to large.

If the barrel is an 18” Satern many find the best solution to get them to function is an adjustable gas block. Specfic information on barrel length, gas port location (carbine, midlength, intermediate or rifle length) helps forum member figure out potential issues.


http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014...artridges/

There is a mod to the ejector which improves feeding. The ejector can cause failure to feed where the case head will not properly seat on the breach face during the feeding cycle. It won’t hurt to do this mod and at least your eliminating one potential cause.

Try to modify one component at a time. Systematically eliminate potential problems. If you have a 5.56/223 mag they will usually feed two or three 6.5 Grendel cartridges. If the 6.5 Grendel AR-15’s won’t feed two or three cartridges it usually isn’t a mag problem.

[montana]

M1A:

Yes, without seeing a picture of them, I would suspect they are barrel extensions using the rifle feed ramps and not the M-4 feed ramps.

You can do a search on the internet and find pictures of each if you don't already know the difference.

Or you can take a picture and post it to the forum for us to see and we will tell you.

If I am correct, the first thing I would do is to replace the rifle barrel extension with a M-4 barrel extension.

Your problem was not new and this was the primary cause of the problem you describe.

One thing I wouldn't do is screw around with the other things until I was sure the barrel extensions had M-4 feedramps.

LR55

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Educat.../4-571237/

[LR1955]

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Educat.../4-571237/

Thanks Tom.

Am editing this because I am heading down the wrong path with it. It has been more than a few years since the feed ramp stuff and I have forgotten all the details so will let you guys who make these things take over.

LR55

[m1a convert]

Okay- The Faxon barrel is M4 feed ramps and the Satern is Rifle feed ramps. Both of them are having the same malfunctions. How do I change out the Satern to M4 or what is the solution for that?

What is the next step on the Faxon?

[LTQZ]

m1a, I have a 14.5" sabre barrel that had this problem. It became pretty clear that the bolt was running to fast for the magazine to keep up. Going to a H3 buffer helped a little, but the final solution for me was to install an 8-32 set screw into my sight assembly. (couldn't change the block easily due to the permanently installed flash suppressor) My 2 cents is that an adjustable gas block will get your rifle running.

I think GSPHunter may be onto something here. I had a similar issue with another AR style rifle and found out it was cycling too fast, went to a heaver buffer and the problem ceased.

[montana]

Okay- The Faxon barrel is M4 feed ramps and the Satern is Rifle feed ramps. Both of them are having the same malfunctions. How do I change out the Satern to M4 or what is the solution for that?

What is the next step on the Faxon?

Is the Faxon M4 feed ramp barrel in a M4 feed ramp upper? Is your Saturn rifle feed ramp barrel in a rifle feed ramp upper? https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Educat.../4-571237/

[m1a convert]

Yes the Faxon and Satern barrels have uppers that match their feed ramps.