The best shot I know told me not to use a brass cleaning rod because stuff can get embedded in it and scratch up the barrel. A steel rod might do more damage slowly over time but one bad time with a brass rod can ruin your barrel.
I have steel rods, I have otis kits with the rubber coated cables, I have bore snakes. I'm getting the best barrel I've ever had on friday in the mail and I really don't want to mess it up. Also heard of using bore snakes with removing the brass bristles, seems like a sound idea to me (will the brass weight damage the barrel seeing as its not under force going through?) BTW this barrel comes with a guide to put a rod through the barrel without ever touching the barel, but still raises the question of what tip to use if thats better then a de brassed bore snake.
So basic questions, what should I use to clean the barrel out chemically and physically. Will militec cause advanced wear on the lugs messing up the mating (heard that we are not supposed to use militec now in the military due to advanced wear) if so what would be a good go to, I'd like to not use clip if practical I hate the stuff. If militec is fine I have bottles of the stuff.
I can't say that I have heard of a brass brush scratching your barrel.. Steel, possibly, but because brass is softer than the metal your barrel is made of, you would seriously have to oversize it, and run that bad boy through there a ton to do damage (IMO). I don't do the match barrels and I don't shoot the competitions, and I have no need for them. But I can't say that I have ever heard someone say that a brass brush would do damage to your barrel. I would say that a bore guide and good gear would be the way to go.
I forgot to mention that I use Sweets 7.62 cleaner, and it works wonders on all my barrels. They say that it will eat plastic and sometimes finishes, so you might want to be careful, but it's great stuff.
Posts: 1,685
Threads: 55
Joined: Mar 2011
Well, cleaning protocols are a very debatable subject and few agree on the best methods. However, I'll tell you how I go about it and my experiences with high volume match shooting. I don't ever put a brass rod, or bare metal rod of any kind, down my bore, I use a Dewey coated steel rod and piercing type patch jag with a bore guide. I also only use an otis or bore snake pull though system when taking a full length rod with me is a problem. Unless you are absolutely sure that you can pull it through the bore with no side pressure you risk wearing the crown of your barrel. I've seen this damage first hand.
The rifle I'm campaigning this season has a little over 14,200 rounds on it and is on it's fourth barrel. I changed the first three when they reached 4,000 rounds and they were still holding .5 MOA so, I'm reasonably comfortable that my cleaning routine works for me.
After every match or practice session which typically run 50-160 rounds each I clean the barrel using patch out bore cleaner and accelerant. Starting with a patch soaked with five drops of accelerant, I make one pass from breech to bore and remove the patch at the bore and pull the rod back through. I then wet another patch with patch out and push it through from breech to bore, remove the patch, pull the rod back and let it sit for five to ten minutes. Then repeat with patches soaked with patch out until it comes clean and then run two dry patches through. That's it, no bore protectant or lubricant of any kind needed if you are going to shoot it again within a few weeks.
Additionally I polish the throat to remove any carbon build up every 300 to 500 rounds using JB polishing compound. You have to be careful with JB and not over do it. This isn't that necessary if you are shooting 300 yards or less but for longer distances you will see a degradation in accuracy if you aren't doing this due to the higher rate of copper fouling. You will also see a reduction in cold bore zero change if you maintain the throat this way.
To polish with JB just rub the compound into a patch until it is permeated through both sides, then wrap the patch around a well worn bronze brush or use the piercing jag, stroke the patch about 6-8 inches into the bore five times, then on the sixth stroke take it half way through the bore and then on the final stroke push it out the bore and remove the patch, repeat this two or three times and then clean as normal with patches and patch out. The idea here is to polish the throat end of the barrel more than the muzzle end so that it remains the smallest diameter of the whole bore.
Here is a list of supplies used
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/112089/...-oz-liquid
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/461265/...-oz-liquid
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/489003/...-36-thread
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/118238/...age-of-600
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/732501/...read-brass
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/325777/...15-264-lbc
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=4123/...25_d_10167
Of course there are other ways to clean a barrel too, this one just works well for me.
Bob
Posts: 3,340
Threads: 46
Joined: Mar 2011
yocan Wrote:The best shot I know told me not to use a brass cleaning rod because stuff can get embedded in it and scratch up the barrel. A steel rod might do more damage slowly over time but one bad time with a brass rod can ruin your barrel.
I have steel rods, I have otis kits with the rubber coated cables, I have bore snakes. I'm getting the best barrel I've ever had on friday in the mail and I really don't want to mess it up. Also heard of using bore snakes with removing the brass bristles, seems like a sound idea to me (will the brass weight damage the barrel seeing as its not under force going through?) BTW this barrel comes with a guide to put a rod through the barrel without ever touching the barel, but still raises the question of what tip to use if thats better then a de brassed bore snake.
So basic questions, what should I use to clean the barrel out chemically and physically. Will militec cause advanced wear on the lugs messing up the mating (heard that we are not supposed to use militec now in the military due to advanced wear) if so what would be a good go to, I'd like to not use clip if practical I hate the stuff. If militec is fine I have bottles of the stuff.
Yocan:
Just remember that barrels are expendable items. You will wear out the barrel just like you do a car.
'Breaking in' a barrel is a myth. There is no evidence to suggest that the tedious and very costly process guys go through when they 'break in' the barrel, does anything but spend their money. So, when you get your new barrel on your upper, clean it then shoot it as you normally would and clean it after shooting as you normally would.
Most guys use coated one piece rods with wrap around jags for patches and bronze bore brushes. Shooters Choice and Hoppies are common solvents. In a pinch, Simple Green or any household cleaner will do. Sweets 7.62 copper remover works better than other copper removers. GI bore brushes, tooth brushes, and GI cleaning patches are good things to get. A bore guide is a very good idea and get a derlon guide that is made for the specific cartridge. The universal / one size and adjustable guides will not work and are prone to breaking.
Wet patch the bore with two or three wet patches. Put your finger over the muzzle and work the wet patch up and back. It is a myth that pulling the patch back through the barrel destroys the barrel. Your finger will keep the jag from leaving the barrel as those jags are rough on the outside to hold the patches and they can damage the crown like a file.
I will put some solvent on a GI bore brush and run it totally through the bore and back five or six times. The brushes will not file your crown like a wrap around jag can. Then clean the brush with the cheapest carb or brake cleaner you can buy. The solvent will dissolve the brush and keeping the brush clean means it lasts a season.
Then I will push a wet patch completely through the bore (pushing out all the crud) and remove the patch before carefully pulling the jag back through the barrel. Some remove the jag before pulling the rod back. I will do this two or three times and then dry patch the bore.
Use some Sweets to remove any copper periodically. Follow the directions.
It also pays to run some JB bore paste through the barrel once every five hundred rounds or so. That stuff is a very fine polishing compound but the barrel must be free of carbon and copper for it to perform to its potential maximum.
I clean 6mm barrels after a match or at about 100 rounds fired. 5.56, 6.5's and .308's -- about every three or four hundred rounds. It seems like the 6mm needs more cleaning for it to do well.
I also bore snake sometimes between cleanings if I think the bore needs something. No need to remove those bristles -- no doubt another myth like the old one that a bore brush run one time through a barrel equals the wear of 100 rounds fired.
Take care with the barrel but I think most guys damage them by excessive cleaning under the misguided and completely illogical notion that somehow keeping them clean means they will last longer.
LR1955
stokesrj Wrote:Well, cleaning protocols are a very debatable subject and few agree on the best methods. However, I'll tell you how I go about it and my experiences with high volume match shooting. I don't ever put a brass rod, or bare metal rod of any kind, down my bore, I use a Dewey coated steel rod and piercing type patch jag with a bore guide. I also only use an otis or bore snake pull though system when taking a full length rod with me is a problem. Unless you are absolutely sure that you can pull it through the bore with no side pressure you risk wearing the crown of your barrel. I've seen this damage first hand.
The rifle I'm campaigning this season has a little over 14,200 rounds on it and is on it's fourth barrel. I changed the first three when they reached 4,000 rounds and they were still holding .5 MOA so, I'm reasonably comfortable that my cleaning routine works for me.
After every match or practice session which typically run 50-160 rounds each I clean the barrel using patch out bore cleaner and accelerant. Starting with a patch soaked with five drops of accelerant, I make one pass from breech to bore and remove the patch at the bore and pull the rod back through. I then wet another patch with patch out and push it through from breech to bore, remove the patch, pull the rod back and let it sit for five to ten minutes. Then repeat with patches soaked with patch out until it comes clean and then run two dry patches through. That's it, no bore protectant or lubricant of any kind needed if you are going to shoot it again within a few weeks.
Additionally I polish the throat to remove any carbon build up every 300 to 500 rounds using JB polishing compound. You have to be careful with JB and not over do it. This isn't that necessary if you are shooting 300 yards or less but for longer distances you will see a degradation in accuracy if you aren't doing this due to the higher rate of copper fouling. You will also see a reduction in cold bore zero change if you maintain the throat this way.
To polish with JB just rub the compound into a patch until it is permeated through both sides, then wrap the patch around a well worn bronze brush or use the piercing jag, stroke the patch about 6-8 inches into the bore five times, then on the sixth stroke take it half way through the bore and then on the final stroke push it out the bore and remove the patch, repeat this two or three times and then clean as normal with patches and patch out. The idea here is to polish the throat end of the barrel more than the muzzle end so that it remains the smallest diameter of the whole bore.
Here is a list of supplies used
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/112089/...-oz-liquid
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/461265/...-oz-liquid
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/489003/...-36-thread
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/118238/...age-of-600
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/732501/...read-brass
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/325777/...15-264-lbc
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=4123/...25_d_10167
Of course there are other ways to clean a barrel too, this one just works well for me.
Bob
thanks for the tips, Bob!
Posts: 1,143
Threads: 51
Joined: May 2012
i use carbon fiber rods http://www.midwayusa.com/product/342014/...-32-thread and patches with caliber specific jags
+1 on the carbon fiber rods. I use Tipton. i also use the jag and patches. I dont use a brush at all. My barrel doesnt really get any copper. Just some of the soot and powder. On the break in i didnt break mine in at all. I just shot it. It shoots half inch or less consistently at 100 yards. Alls i use is Hoppes. And if im not going to be shooting it awhile ill run a couple of patches of rem oil through it. Man i just noticed this post is so old!
Posts: 1,143
Threads: 51
Joined: May 2012
+1 on wow old post I also really like hoppes elite for cleaning and it cleans well without stinking up the house
ChellieWiles
Unregistered
cleaning is important, but don't think that your accuracy is truly going to be affected if you do not clean unless it's in a competition past 500 yards. I have an 5.56 NATO barrel that has over 30,000 rounds through it that I have never cleaned (bolt/carrier group get's cleaned and lubed, but that's it) and it's still punches a 1" group at 135yards. I have 22LR guns that haven't been cleaned in over 20 years and it still holds a 1" group with iron sights at 50 yards. Competition shooters at long distances are the only people I hear screaming about cleaning. Most hunters I know don't even think about cleaning if a gun is over a certain age and I've found that most people that clean just really like to hold, look at, and play with their guns. Rule of thumb, keep moving parts lubed and clean, but the bore doesn't truly matter that much.
Posts: 1,143
Threads: 51
Joined: May 2012
A clean gun only shoots like a clean gun once a dirty gun always shoots like a dirty gun
Posts: 335
Threads: 17
Joined: Aug 2011
+1 on composit cleaning rods. i use butchs bore cleaner. i avoid using any alum cleaning rods. they oxidise and create alumoxide which is abrasive. its like running sandpaper down your bore.
If i sight a gun in to go hunt with i wont clean it. Ill leave it where its at because it will be consistent pretty much when i get ready to hunt. I only clean it if im putting it away like after a range session etc.
I have heard, and believe that more barrels are worn out through careless cleaning than from shooting them out. Most people who purchase a high end barrel go to the trouble to learn how to care for it properly. It is the people who get a sectioned steel military cleaning rod because it is cheap, then scrub back and forth in the barrel that ruins things. They will either ruin the crown, or the throat of the barrel doing this.
If you use a good coated rod, and clean from breech to muzzle you will probably have your barrel last a long time. If you make the mistake of dragging the rod back into the barrel after it has exited the muzzle, you will wear an oblong groove in the lower part of your barrel where the rod is dragged back into the bore.
I rarely use a brush, and bronze brushes only on a really good rifle barrel. I use a bore guide, and push from breech to muzzle, remove the device from the cleaning rod, carefully lift the rod and take it through the bore in a way that doesn't allow it to drag on the lower part of the muzzle's crown. I first use something like hoppes, then remove that. Then if necessary, I'll use something like Sweets 7.62 or another ammonia product to get the copper out. When I'm satisfied that enough copper is out, I use lots of dry patches. Then I'll swab with Hoppes again, dry, oil, then dry the bore to make sure I have neutralized all the ammonia.
This is probably overkill, but I would rather not worry that it was my leaving ammonia in the barrel that ruined a fine rifle barrel.
I only leave oil in the bore if it is going in for long term storage (over 6 months).
I using Hoppes #9 Powder Solvent, Tipton Truly Remarkable Copper Solvent and Tipton Gun Oil. All of these supplies can be purchased on our website MidwayUSA.
noone Wrote:I have heard, and believe that more barrels are worn out through careless cleaning than from shooting them out. Most people who purchase a high end barrel go to the trouble to learn how to care for it properly. It is the people who get a sectioned steel military cleaning rod because it is cheap, then scrub back and forth in the barrel that ruins things. They will either ruin the crown, or the throat of the barrel doing this.
If you use a good coated rod, and clean from breech to muzzle you will probably have your barrel last a long time. If you make the mistake of dragging the rod back into the barrel after it has exited the muzzle, you will wear an oblong groove in the lower part of your barrel where the rod is dragged back into the bore.
I rarely use a brush, and bronze brushes only on a really good rifle barrel. I use a bore guide, and push from breech to muzzle, remove the device from the cleaning rod, carefully lift the rod and take it through the bore in a way that doesn't allow it to drag on the lower part of the muzzle's crown. I first use something like hoppes, then remove that. Then if necessary, I'll use something like Sweets 7.62 or another ammonia product to get the copper out. When I'm satisfied that enough copper is out, I use lots of dry patches. Then I'll swab with Hoppes again, dry, oil, then dry the bore to make sure I have neutralized all the ammonia.
This is probably overkill, but I would rather not worry that it was my leaving ammonia in the barrel that ruined a fine rifle barrel.
I only leave oil in the bore if it is going in for long term storage (over 6 months).
In my directions from Precision Firearms they say after the Sweets use hydrogen peroxide to neutralize the Sweets then dry patches
This is a very controversial issue, bottom line, many, many cleaning methods work.
However, I feel compelled to point out there are actually multiple issues being discussed here.
1. How to best Clean my barrel
2. Fouled vs clean barrel point of impact
3. Cold bore vs warm bore point of impact
I travel with, lodge with, dine with some of the best high power competitors in the nation. There is no consensous on how to best clean a barrel. Many opinons are based on nothing more than joe blow did it this way and shot really high scores, or, national chamion X uses this method, or I have a Hawkey bore scope and know for sure this method works and this method doesn't.
I listen to all of them and form my own opinion, based upon my experience, and I tune my methods accordingly. I am one of those who bought a bore scope and routinely clean my barrel and inspect it. What I have migrated to is the use of Wipe Out patch out as my primary solvent, no brush ever, coper, bronze, or nylon. I use only pircing jags on a Dewey rod and 1 1/4" cotton patches. I clean this way for 300 rounds or until I detect copper fouling with the bore scope and then I use JB polishing compound to lap the throat and remove the copper. This keeps copper fouling to a minimum and prolongs barrel life. I do use Wipe Out Accelerator on the first patch only which seems to speed up the whole process but is only important to speed, the end results are the same.
As a testiment the Krieger service rifle barrel I used in the National matches this year had over 4,500 rounds on it and it shot accurately enough to win a medal in the national trophy individual match and my distinguished rifleman badge, #2107 since 1888. I know this method works, but that doesn't mean others don't as well.
Using this method, I've also won four cold bore X medals. That means that my first shot of the day at 600 yards from a clean and cold bore was an X which in turn means I hit a six inch cirle at 600 yards on the first shot using iron sights, from the prone position without a bipod, without a rest, only a sling. I know the point of impact if my barrel is clean, dirty, fouled, or any combination. That is your reasonable expectation if you are a rifleman. Some barrels are more forgiving than others and don't care, some are very discriminationg. You have to know your barrel, it isn't hard, just takes effort.
Here is a short article produced by the AMU, Army Marksmanship Unit, I know these team members personally and have the highest of respect for them. They usually know what they are talking about. http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/USAM...inter.html
Bob
|
