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LR1955 Wrote:NF:
What is your solution?
LR55
Wish I had one, LR55.
Allow me to present an analogy. You are now the manager of a movie theater. You hear a commotion from one of the theaters showing a Dwayne Johnson action film. You listen for a minute, and discover that you have a group of people upset with one particular patron. The one patron is talking throughout the show, saying what a terrible actor the Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson is, while the other people are yelling at him to stop so they can enjoy the show. This goes on, with this same talkative patron, show after show, talking through each one. Whom do you, as a movie theater manager, sanction? The talkative patron, or the people seated around him?
While I admit it is a loose analogy, I believe it establishes the point. As long as the talkative patron keeps it up, more and more people will avoid that particular theater and seek out a different venue.
I can only say that in the past, moderators have issued warnings to disruptive elements. Continued offenses were followed by "time-outs". Further disruption, well, you get the gist. .
Your dilemma, then, is how to decide who or what is the disruptive element. Further, is it even worth dealing with? After all, 2A is only one of several "theaters within the movieplex".
If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?
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This makes total sense!!! Sometimes, i LOVE the Rock's movies, and sometimes, i HATE them! Excellent job sir!
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The easiest way to win a debate is to kick out the person you're arguing against.....keep the 2a forum like it is.
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My overall perspective of the 2A Room is a distraction from moderating or focusing on technical information.
Most people come here for reloading info and insights, solutions to problems in AR15 troubleshooting, what's latest and greatest in terms of rifles, uppers, barrels, bolts, magazines, optics, and things of that nature.
When I see "What's New" and it's populated with "Room 2A", I don't even want to go in there, but I have to because I want to make sure we're maintaining gentlemanly conduct on this forum.
My concern is that new and existing members will drop in, then have a negative experience when the Grendel forum is meant to support the members in a positive way.
If we find more and more bickering, we remember that and don't want to log in anymore, which defeats the main body and purpose of the forum.
If we suggest the study and adherence to formal intellectual standards for debate, where logical fallacies aren't permitted, then the grounded people who understand what freedom is and couldn't care less about an intellectual argument get marginalized, and the same effect is present of alienating members.
I'm very passionate and studied about the history of firearms ownership, love to learn new things I have yet to discover, but don't like to see grown men acting like children about it.
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NugginFutz Wrote:Wish I had one, LR55.
Allow me to present an analogy. You are now the manager of a movie theater. You hear a commotion from one of the theaters showing a Dwayne Johnson action film. You listen for a minute, and discover that you have a group of people upset with one particular patron. The one patron is talking throughout the show, saying what a terrible actor the Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson is, while the other people are yelling at him to stop so they can enjoy the show. This goes on, with this same talkative patron, show after show, talking through each one. Whom do you, as a movie theater manager, sanction? The talkative patron, or the people seated around him?
While I admit it is a loose analogy, I believe it establishes the point. It's not even a "loose" analogy. It's a totally inaccurate analogy.
Unlike with a talkative movie patron, no one is forced to read my posts in order to read the posts made by others.
Indeed, those sensitive souls who find my posts so dreadfully annoying have the option to avoid even seeing them.
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stanc Wrote:It's not even a "loose" analogy. It's a totally inaccurate analogy.
Unlike with a talkative movie patron, no one is forced to read my posts in order to read the posts made by others.
Indeed, those sensitive souls who find my posts so dreadfully annoying have the option to avoid even seeing them.
Setting the analogy aside for the moment...
I'll flip it back at you, ala LR55...
What, then, would your solution be?
If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?
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Keef Wrote:The easiest way to win a debate is to kick out the person you're arguing against.....keep the 2a forum like it is. The corollary to that, then, would be to close down the 2a Forum, thus removing the bone over which they are bickering.
If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?
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stanc Wrote:It's not even a "loose" analogy. It's a totally inaccurate analogy.
Unlike with a talkative movie patron, no one is forced to read my posts in order to read the posts made by others.
Indeed, those sensitive souls who find my posts so dreadfully annoying have the option to avoid even seeing them.
Just to keep up the theme of the threads.......
It is a good 'loose' analogy. See, the movie patrons don't have to pay to see Rock movies either. And after finding that this particular talkative critic is only obnoxiously critiquing Rocks movies.....they can quit going to see Rocks movies. They don't like the particular patron, so they stop going. Ooooorrrr....they start yelling back and forth with the noisy guest, and the theater owner ends up having to spend extra time in that one particular theater showing Rocks movies. So, they're forced to make a choice between kicking out the loudmouf dude they are friends with, or to stop showing Rock movies, or to just put up a sign that makes it clear that this particular theater is a free-for-all, and if you go in there, you may hear a bunch of jawjacking in tediously itemized form. 
I thought it was a perfect analogy NF!
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08-09-2018, 08:28 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-09-2018, 10:06 PM by JASmith.)
This discussion is well past the point of dimishing returns AGAIN!
I strongly disagree with the notion that one exercises censorship by setting an arbitrary limit on the number of posts in a subforum that consistently devolves into repetitive comments.
I have learned a number of good tidbits about the 2A here, but that benefit is becoming outweighed by the argumentive tone and stubborn contrary attitude shown by one poster.
If the moderators cannot or choose not to apply better constraints on one who consistently provokes the arguments, then, the sub forum should be shut down.
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NugginFutz Wrote:Setting the analogy aside for the moment...
I'll flip it back at you, ala LR55...
What, then, would your solution be? You'll have to be a bit more specific. Solution to what problem(s)?
Personally, I don't have a problem with discussion/debate, even when posts are about minutiae, or stray off topic; few people have the self-discipline to refrain from doing either.
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NugginFutz Wrote:Setting the analogy aside for the moment...
I'll flip it back at you, ala LR55...
What, then, would your solution be?
Sorry NF:
You didn't 'flip it back on me'.
You refused to clearly state the problem and refused to offer a solution.
Not even by a stretch of the imagination is your analogy true.
A movie theater is a for profit enterprise where someone is paying for a service. The service is a movie and a patron has a right to be able to watch the movie without being bothered by people who are conducting themselves against the rules laid out by that theater.
Sorry, it won't work.
LR55
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bj139 Wrote:Without Stan, there would be no counterpoint.
SH, I do appreciate what you say. We could discuss effective ways of promoting Constitutional rights if we were not focused on the trivia. I created a thread for that exact purpose. http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...nd-Methods
It has been totally ignored.
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StoneHendge Wrote:I contribute very little here because I choose not to participate. I think it's pretty clear why I made that choice. One of the premises of this thread was the amount of locked threads. It doesn't take a Master to see there is one common denominator in virtually all of the locked threads. I'm not asking for anyone to be banned. Just commenting on the subject.
Before I go back to my regularly scheduled programming of ignoring this subforum (feel free to change my vote), perhaps another subforum such as the "Pro 2A Rally Room" would be of value while keeping this subforum active for discussing such pressing topics as: The correlation between the length of the skid marks on each of the Founding Father's bloomies the fortnight before the signing of the Bill of Rights and how that might have effected their view of what constitutes a high capacity mag vs a standard capacity mag today.
Edit Add: bj, if you think everyone should listen to anything anyone has to say, can we lock you in a room, tie you to a chair and pin your eyes open Clockwork Orange style and play a 24 your feed of CNN/MSNBC on 100 monitors? I promise that your right to touch yourself when Mika comes on shall not be infringed.
There was a time or two where my head was about to explode due to comments by you know who.
I realized I was becoming irrational which I thought was training by Stan into keeping my cool under fire.
I never said you should change your opinion if it did not need changing.
Don't you believe in free speech or only in speech you agree with?
Careful, you might be a leftist and not know it.
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LR1955 Wrote:Sorry NF:
You didn't 'flip it back on me'.
You refused to clearly state the problem and refused to offer a solution.
Not even by a stretch of the imagination is your analogy true.
A movie theater is a for profit enterprise where someone is paying for a service. The service is a movie and a patron has a right to be able to watch the movie without being bothered by people who are conducting themselves against the rules laid out by that theater.
Sorry, it won't work.
LR55
LR, i suggest you go back and read NF's post. You did not clearly understand it.
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keystone183 Wrote:LR, i suggest you go back and read NF's post. You did not clearly understand it.
ks:
Not smoking you or anything but please do tell me what it was about his post I didn't understand?
LR-55
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In order for the topics to progress in a productive manner we must assume the other poster knows something we don't. Otherwise it's just arrogantly forcing your opinion onto others.
This is what I think Stans problem is and what people are so tired of here.
I'd hate to see Stan disappear altogether. He does bring a wealth of experience. When he is acting in the former he's an asset to the discussion. The problem is he to often falls into the latter category.
Enough is enough.
I'd suggest we let this thread serve as a warning to anyone who only wants to force their opinions onto other, not contributing to the betterment of the discussion. If they continue to act in the same manner beyond this point, they should be banned from the 2A sub forum.
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LR1955 Wrote:ks:
Not smoking you or anything but please do tell me what it was about his post I didn't understand?
LR-55
His statement wasn't directed at you, but stan. He just referenced you.
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It is threads like this that make me wonder if people's web-browsers are forcibly omitting every other word.
LR55 - I told you I wished that I had a solution. Fortunately for me, that is not my lookout.
As far as the analogy goes, Yes - I get it. This is not a paid venue, so there is no expectation of quid pro quo. It is a loose comparison of the two experiences people may have, in the two different venues. If you disagree, so be it.
Stan - I get it. You are feeling butt-hurt because every one seems to be picking on you. I can honestly say I feel bad about it, but I can also say that now that the sentiments are revealed for what they are, how you deal with it from this moment will be telling.
What solution was I referring to? Just go back to the post you weighed in on, where I was posing a comparison, and see LR55's post I was personally responding to. If you want to get a more specific statement of the solution, ask LR55. He asked for ideas, in the first place.
If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?
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Very well stated!
A partial ban may work well.
cory Wrote:In order for the topics to progress in a productive manner we must assume the other poster knows something we don't. Otherwise it's just arrogantly forcing your opinion onto others.
This is what I think Stans problem is and what people are so tired of here.
I'd hate to see Stan disappear altogether. He does bring a wealth of experience. When he is acting in the former he's an asset to the discussion. The problem is he to often falls into the latter category.
Enough is enough.
I'd suggest we let this thread serve as a warning to anyone who only wants to force their opinions onto other, not contributing to the betterment of the discussion. If they continue to act in the same manner beyond this point, they should be banned from the 2A sub forum.
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-- Author Unknown
"If at first you do succeed, try not to look astonished!" -- Milton Berle
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StoneHendge Wrote:I certainly believe in free speech. Again, I am just commenting on the subject matter of this thread which is the amount of degenerated and locked threads.
I also believe in other freedoms. One of which is to choose not to go where one doesn't want to go, and for me that's Room 2A. Just like I don't go to parties or bars where I know I'm not going to have any fun based upon who will be there.
I do think I had the best solution - start up the 2A Rally Room below this sub forum - dedicated to positive strategizing and general commiserating about gun grabbers and libtards. And leave this one as is. It would be like turning to your friends and saying "this bar sucks. I don't like the music here. Lets go next door where we can have some fun." The only problem with that is that stanc would find himself alone in this room and figure out where everybody went........
My guess, however, is that the mods don't want to do anything that would hurt stanc's feelings. Which surprisingly don't seem to be hurt by the commentary in this thread. Which means that he really and truly is no different than a troll.
I also didn't like the locked threads since I considered it censorship. I didn't think those threads had become bad enough to lock.
The owners of this site are free to run it as they wish so I accept that and move on.
Having a room dedicated to promoting the 2A would be good.
I know what you mean where every subject to do with the 2A becomes an arguement with Stan as to whether we even have a 2A.
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