Value of the 2A Sub Forum on 6.5 Grendel Forum

[bj139]

Yes, but there is no need to hijack every thread. Which is what he does. And it gets in the way of everyone interacting and debating with everyone else. And therefore sends away a lot of people who would otherwise participate. Including myself.

Without Stan, there would be no counterpoint.

SH, I do appreciate what you say. We could discuss effective ways of promoting Constitutional rights if we were not focused on the trivia.

[stanc]

I had deleted my earlier posts, and intended to let all the whining continue without interruption, but I feel the need to respond to some recent comments.

I have thought for a while that Stan was training us in arguing tactics of the left.
I fully support Stan in this endeavour. It does not really matter whether he believes what he is saying or not.

It was not my intent to argue tactics of the left. My positions on matters discussed are genuine; any similarities to those of the anti-gun crowd are purely coincidental.

Fair point and I thoroughly appreciate someone sharpening my argument on the idea and intent not the trivial potato or potahto arguments.

Not being clairvoyant, I don't know your intent. I can only go by your words. When you say "Rights [were] taken from the Individual and allocated to the government," that's not "potayto vs potahto." That's a rather substantial contradiction of the idea that Rights are unalienable, and cannot be either taken, or given away.

That being said, I will admit to often getting unduly focused on minutiae. If it's not an innate character trait, it was certainly developed by 16 years in a job which required looking for and correcting even the tiniest of errors.

Yes, but there is no need to hijack every thread. Which is what he does. And it gets in the way of everyone interacting and debating with everyone else. And therefore sends away a lot of people who would otherwise participate. Including myself.

What I do is respond to other posts. That I have many more posts in a thread than any other individual, is because typically three or more members address my comments, and I reply to each of them in turn. Since I consider it rude to ignore other members, I'm not going to refuse to respond just to reduce the number of my posts in a thread.

I can't imagine why the number of my posts would be so intimidating as to cause you or anyone else to be unwilling to interact and debate with those who do participate.

[StoneHendge]

Without Stan, there would be no counterpoint.

SH, I do appreciate what you say. We could discuss effective ways of promoting Constitutional rights if we were not focused on the trivia.

Does there always need to be a counterpoint? Does anyone go into the Photos subforum and say: "Your rifle is ugly. Eugene Stoner must be rolling in his grave because when he designed the AR-15, he never thought someone would make on that looks like that!"?

And then go on to comment on every other thread about how it does or doesn't fit what Eugene Stoner had in mind? While being an expert on knowing just exactly what Eugene Stoner was thinking?

[Klem]

I had deleted my earlier posts, and intended to let all the whining continue without interruption, but I feel the need to respond to some recent comments.


It was not my intent to argue tactics of the left. My positions on matters discussed are genuine; any similarities to those of the anti-gun crowd are purely coincidental.


Not being clairvoyant, I don't know your intent. I can only go by your words. When you say "Rights [were] taken from the Individual and allocated to the government," that's not "potayto vs potahto." That's a rather substantial contradiction of the idea that Rights are unalienable, and cannot be either taken, or given away.

That being said, I will admit to often getting unduly focused on minutiae. If it's not an innate character trait, it was certainly developed by 16 years in a job which required looking for and correcting even the tiniest of errors.


What I do is respond to other posts. That I have many more posts in a thread than any other individual, is because typically three or more members address my comments, and I reply to each of them in turn. Since I consider it rude to ignore other members, I'm not going to refuse to respond just to reduce the number of my posts in a thread.

I can't imagine why the number of my posts would be so intimidating as to cause you or anyone else to be unwilling to interact and debate with those who do participate.

I said you were intransigent, not intimidating; there is a big difference.

This is a gun forum which is very specific to a particular calibre. I don't come here to debate gun ownership, and especially not with an intransigent keen on playing Devil's Advocate for entertainment. The Grendel is my hobby. I come here to enjoy time with fellow committed Grendel owners.

[brian y]

I had deleted my earlier posts, and intended to let all the whining continue without interruption, but I feel the need to respond to some recent comments.


It was not my intent to argue tactics of the left. My positions on matters discussed are genuine; any similarities to those of the anti-gun crowd are purely coincidental.


Not being clairvoyant, I don't know your intent. I can only go by your words. When you say "Rights [were] taken from the Individual and allocated to the government," that's not "potayto vs potahto." That's a rather substantial contradiction of the idea that Rights are unalienable, and cannot be either taken, or given away.

That being said, I will admit to often getting unduly focused on minutiae. If it's not an innate character trait, it was certainly developed by 16 years in a job which required looking for and correcting even the tiniest of errors.


What I do is respond to other posts. That I have many more posts in a thread than any other individual, is because typically three or more members address my comments, and I reply to each of them in turn. Since I consider it rude to ignore other members, I'm not going to refuse to respond just to reduce the number of my posts in a thread.

I can't imagine why the number of my posts would be so intimidating as to cause you or anyone else to be unwilling to interact and debate with those who do participate.

And here is stan in another thread pointing out it is not his fault we are all "whiners" and "any similarities to those of the anti-gun crowd are purely coincidental"and"not being clairvoyant, I don't know your intent." and you wonder why members are pissed off with the 2A forum and do not use it?. The 2A forum should be a useful tool for information about what is going on around our country to help advance our pro gun rights and what has it become?, A place for one person to push his agenda and anyone who does not agree with him he will argue with them about words or sentences until the thread is so off tangent no one know what it was about and it gets closed down. To the owner of this forum is this what you wanted the 2A forum to become when you put it in?.
I still visit the 2A forum but i do not post there, I drop in in the hope's i will find some useful information i can use or talk about with my fellow shooters when we meet up but all i find is crap.
Again to the owner of this great forum this is your baby and something you should be proud off so let me ask you are you proud of the 2A forum?, If you are then let it be but if like a lot of the members here and you are not then do something about it, Close it or put it back to a proper 2A Forum and stop the garbage that is going on in there.

[Brett]

It staggers the imagination that this thread, and this sub-forum, has become all about one universally annoying person.

[StoneHendge]

Lol - thanks for the quote Klem and Brian. I'll take it easy and attribute any outlandishness to the medical marijuana he must be smoking........

[rabiddawg]

It staggers the imagination that this thread, and this sub-forum, has become all about one universally annoying person.

Well said Brett

[montana]

The one thing I have always enjoyed about this forum was no one was allowed to get personal. I have vehemently disagreed with Stan on many occasions, but he never got nasty or personal with me. Stan has made me do a lot of research and has proven my approach wrong on more than one occasion. This in itself has benefited me. Stan may never admit defeat, a wrong or what ever, but he has always given a strong argument. Freedom works from all sides, including those we disagree or disapprove of. Nobody was forced to read or reply to Stan's opinions. What Stan may have done is frustrate, hurt some egos or feelings, but that should not be a problem for adults. This may upset some members who I consider friends, but right is right and wrong is wrong.

[LR1955]

Guys:

Seems to me that the guys who have contributed the least to the 2A thread are the ones who are focusing its demise on Stan.

You guys seem to want us as moderators or John as the owner of the Grendel Forum to throw Stan off of the forum.

Ain't going to happen. Not from me.

LR55

[bj139]

The one thing I have always enjoyed about this forum was no one was allowed to get personal. I have vehemently disagreed with Stan on many occasions, but he never got nasty or personal with me. Stan has made me do a lot of research and has proven my approach wrong on more than one occasion. This in itself has benefited me. Stan may never admit defeat, a wrong or what ever, but he has always given a strong argument. Freedom works from all sides, including those we disagree or disapprove of. Nobody was forced to read or reply to Stan's opinions. What Stan may have done is frustrate, hurt some egos or feelings, but that should not be a problem for adults. This may upset some members who I consider friends, but right is right and wrong is wrong.

I agree 200%.
I am surprised at some of the members here.
Stan has a right to his opinion and we should listen even if we do not agree.
I wonder what happened to the American saying I heard so much in my youth, "I may not agree with what you say but I fully support your right to say it".

[37L1]

You may have the right to say it but it doesn't mean I have to listen to it.

[grayfox]

None of this is personal, just like getting called for being offsides in football - that's not personal either. Except no one is willing to consider that in order to have a better sub forum for everyone.
Substantive discussions are a benefit and I enjoy them. Other comments, quibbling, arguing over microscopic nuances, etc are not interesting nor are they any benefit as far as I'm concerned.
Certainly Stan has a right to his opinions, as do each of us.
But enough of this for me, I was asked my opinion and and I responded.

I have better threads to read and activities to attend to.

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

In view of all the above, an alternative to consider:

[JASmith]

I agree 200%.
I am surprised at some of the members here.
Stan has a right to his opinion and we shold listen even if we do not agree.
I wonder what happened to the American saying I heard so much in my youth, "I may not agree with what you say but I fully support your right to say it".

Yes, we all hav a right to say things “within reason.”

Our complaint is the stubborn contrarian attitude combined with a dogged insistence on having the last word even though his earlier statements have been soundly refuted by well documented arguments.

That takes the moments beyond reasonable speech.

[NugginFutz]

Guys:

Seems to me that the guys who have contributed the least to the 2A thread are the ones who are focusing its demise on Stan.

Don't you think there just might be a correlation, there? There just may be a possibility that they avoid wading into the fray because it just isn't that fun, given the tenor of these threads.

[StoneHendge]

Guys:

Seems to me that the guys who have contributed the least to the 2A thread are the ones who are focusing its demise on Stan.

You guys seem to want us as moderators or John as the owner of the Grendel Forum to throw Stan off of the forum.

Ain't going to happen. Not from me.

LR55

I contribute very little here because I choose not to participate. I think it's pretty clear why I made that choice. One of the premises of this thread was the amount of locked threads. It doesn't take a Master to see there is one common denominator in virtually all of the locked threads. I'm not asking for anyone to be banned. Just commenting on the subject.

Before I go back to my regularly scheduled programming of ignoring this subforum (feel free to change my vote), perhaps another subforum such as the "Pro 2A Rally Room" would be of value while keeping this subforum active for discussing such pressing topics as: The correlation between the length of the skid marks on each of the Founding Father's bloomies the fortnight before the signing of the Bill of Rights and how that might have effected their view of what constitutes a high capacity mag vs a standard capacity mag today.

Edit Add: bj, if you think everyone should listen to anything anyone has to say, can we lock you in a room, tie you to a chair and pin your eyes open Clockwork Orange style and play a 24 your feed of CNN/MSNBC on 100 monitors? I promise that your right to touch yourself when Mika comes on shall not be infringed.

[NugginFutz]

In view of all the above, an alternative to consider:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]12453[/ATTACH]

[m796rider]

I come here for my Grendel fix. There are PLENTY of other places online to discuss or argue about 2A issues.

[LR1955]

Don't you think there just might be a correlation, there? There just may be a possibility that they avoid wading into the fray because it just isn't that fun, given the tenor of these threads.

NF:

What is your solution?

LR55