Interesting post from PA

[Kswhitetails]

Mods, for lack of a better idea of where to put this, I'm throwing it here. Move if wished, or delete.

P.A. right or wrong here, is touting the better parts of a couple AR cartridges. I thought it was interesting, even if somewhat weighted.

http://news.primaryarms.com/q/F5ZR3Xywwn...Qtfkx5Zd75

[A5BLASTER]

Cool read, thanks for posting it sir.

Looking at both calibers for my needs grendel is the clear winner

[Redomen]

Grendel wins for my needs as well.

[ErikS]

I want meat in my freezer. Grendel.

It carries like a M94 and has more thump.

[StoneHendge]

They forgot to mention that the Valkyrie doesn't work..........

[Kswhitetails]

They forgot to mention that the Valkyrie doesn't work..........

I wondered why this wasn't mentioned. Too bad the accuracy doesn't match the ballistics at all. I'd love to hear someone do this comparison in testing and add 6AR to the mix. I'd bet lots of folks would be awful surprised by the results.

[Londerko]

From what I saw....
With a Valkyrie you Basically you need a 90gr bullet and a 24” barrel to “beat” the Grendel. A lot of the barrels being sold aren’t a fast enough twist even stabilize a a 90 SMK. And the Valkyrie loses a lot of FPS with a shorter “hunting length” barrel
I choose grendel

[biodsl]

They forgot to mention that the Valkyrie doesn't work..........

I'm getting a big shadenfreude kick out of this. Sierra prints right on the box that the 90 grain SMK needs a 1:7 twist. The market goes crazy building barrels that won't stabilize the only bullet that allows the Valkyrie to live up to it's "supersonic to 1300 yards" hype. Unbelievable.

[Eagle103]

I was in the local walmart today and saw Valkyrie ammo for sale but of course no Grendel. Evidently Federal is doing their best to promote the Valkyrie.

[Kswhitetails]

Ever wonder why Fed factory Valk is $20/box for the good stuff, and both of federal's regularly available Grendel loads are 25+/box? And of course there are always lots of the other new majors, but no Grendel on the shelf. At Cabelas, there are 16 slots for different factory loadings for Creedmore, 9 for 6.8, and six for Valk. There are only two slots (Fed 120 AE, and Hornady Black) assigned to Grendel, with the rest being "special order". They don't even stock the SSTs or GMM locally. I get a kick out of the fact that the Grendel is ALWAYS empty, and the others are more often than not completely full. I kind of wonder if the manager of the bang bang section is a closet 6.8 buff/Grendel hater...

There are marketing dollars at work here, same as the 6.8. When it's a pet project of a few members of leadership inside a major company, it's got the extra benefit of some strong legs out of the gate. This is one of the reasons I dug a little deeper when I found Grendel. There was no big name backing, no corporate backed debut events. That is until there was enough proof that it was legitimate, and that it was going to perform in the market. (There were a few "B. Alexander is a moron for not letting anyone that wants to to change his design" posts... usually idiotically ranted and almost always lacking the necessary data and citation. I became even more convinced Grendel was the right way to go.)

THEN a few big names came along and decided to go ahead and make ammo for it. (but not until Wolf committed to making cheap steel for it - oh wait, there's a legitimate market here?!?) And there's still no big name sponsorship when compared to (Hornady) for the Creedmoor, or (Remington) for the SPC, or (Federal) for the Valk. One of the biggest reasons this forum, it's early members, and leadership are so awesome. Grendel stands on it's own, by continued, reliable performance. There is no corporate hype, no exaggerated numbers that the engineers have to catch up to make the weapon prove. I'm not saying these calibers don't perform, I'm saying they had help getting to market.

It's possible that it was good that was the case, though. There was no corporate shill pushing inflated ballistic charts that the Grendel had to attempt to prove. Grendel set it's own parameters, proved the design and T&E, and the results set the expectations. Then the market caught up. A real success story.

Some of those that have been around longer can correct my inaccurate memory regarding the timeline, and expound on this. But this is the way I read Grendel's story, piecing together blog posts, magazine articles, and message board rants.

[bj139]

I'm getting a big shadenfreude kick out of this. Sierra prints right on the box that the 90 grain SMK needs a 1:7 twist. The market goes crazy building barrels that won't stabilize the only bullet that allows the Valkyrie to live up to it's "supersonic to 1300 yards" hype. Unbelievable.

Faxon barrel shown in the article, 1:7 twist.
https://www.primaryarms.com/faxon-firear...6.5_vs_224

[StoneHendge]

Faxon barrel shown in the article, 1:7 twist.
https://www.primaryarms.com/faxon-firear...6.5_vs_224

I just had to go check Sierra's site. All the original barrels were 1:7. The Valk didn't work. So Sierra said the 90s needed a 1:6 or 6.5. ARPs 1:6.5 was a disaster with 90s. Now Sierra is saying it needs 1:6.5. Unless MV is over 2650. Then 1:7 is ok. Lol.

Note that they say the bullet was designed to be single fed in 223 and not mag fed.

[biodsl]

Faxon barrel shown in the article, 1:7 twist.

I see that now. In fact most all the searches I'm doing today are showing a 1:7 twist for most offerings. I don't think this was the case a few months ago. Or maybe it was the ammo all along.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018...matchking/

[bwaites]

Bill Alexander actually experimented with the 90’s and couldn’t get them to work consistently with mass producible barrels. Some were awesome, others weren’t. High end barrels might be better, but the chambers need to be perfect. The guys that tried 90’s in single fed rifles mostly went back to 80’s. You CAN make the Valkyrie work, but it takes more than most people think. And if you run a 6 Grendel, especially a hotter 6 like the 6mm AR Turbo or RAT you can eat the Valkyrie up.

[Joseph5]

224 Grendel makes a lot more sense to me than a 224 Valkyrie.

[se3388]

6.5 Grendel, no doubt.

Steve..........

[LRRPF52]

A lot of the bigger companies have seen the success of the 6.5 Grendel, which is based on performance.

In order to stay relevant with something new, they have tried other cartridges with the full support of conglomerate corporate backing, hand-selected rifles sent out to the main gun writers and reviewers, full ammunition lines supporting the cartridge, with lots of glossy videos and ads all over.

I think all the different cartridges have some merits, some of which are actually useful, and others that are more hype than what is already practical when looking at some of the existing cartridges (22 Nosler vs 5.56 NATO, for example).

I initially was a bit underwhelmed by 6.5 Grendel because my first shots were hand loads, being very careful not to go crazy out of the gate, and looking at the mv. I was initially only getting 2200-2300fps from a 16" Grendel with 123gr Scenars. I searched the forum back then through all the data that was here, and found better recommendations for powder, and then Hornady came out with factory ammo with the 123gr AMAX.

At the time, Alexander Arms, Black Hills, Precision Firearms, and Wolf were the only ones supporting it with factory ammo, so Hornady was a big deal.

Here on the forum, we supported the development and launch of the 123gr SST in parallel with Hornady, by kicking off with a huge group buy. I've still got hundreds of those original 123gr SST bullets from that effort. Then came the 123gr SST factory load, which was a big deal for expanding the public awareness and utility of 6.5 Grendel as a legitimate and very lethal hunting cartridge on medium game. Alexander Arms and later Precision Firearms had already shown that with their hunting loads, but for a big name US outfit like Hornady to embrace the Grendel was a major step in the marketing success of a cartridge that sells its own performance.

Among all the new AR15 variant chamberings, only two have everything from Wolf Steel case to Hornady ELD-M, SST, Federal TNT, Fusion, and Gold Medal Match, with both SAAMI and CIP approval. Of all the cartridges ever made, the Grendel is among a few that can say that, even for those outside of the AR15 world. Having both steel case and FGMM options really narrows down the playing field to the .223 Rem, .308 Win., and .30-06 Springfield.

There are no 6.8 SPC, 6.5CM, .260 Rem., or other recently-introduced cartridges with Wolf steel case, and 6.8 doesn't have Federal Gold Medal Match. There will likely never be .224 Valkyrie steel case.

So the interesting place that Grendel finds itself for new shooters/customers as a first-time AR15 is one that is potentially appealing to:

* Hunters trying to decide which cartridge to go with in the AR15
* Plinkers/General Purpose with the steel case option
* Recreational target and AR15 gas gun competition shooters looking to put a lot of energy on steel
* Home defense/Utilitarian protection for the farm, ranch, truck, hiking, outdoors types

No other cartridge provides all of those options.

[Dope6.5]

I have 3 Grendel’s now. But when I had only 2 I considered a 224V. I had a brand new sealed Larue 224V barrel in my safe. But since I realized I hunt way more than I shoot over 1000 why bother. My 18 inch can get me to 1000 anyway. I traded the 224V and apparently the guy has had nothing but trouble which seems to be because of the ammo. I’m genuinely sorry for the problems he is having but it seems like stick with the 6.5 was a good call.