I have been shopping for an upper for the past few months and finally decided to pull the trigger on a 16" LWS with the standard BCG and free float handguard. I ordered the upper two weeks ago and have been anxiously waiting ever since. Well today I called Erik to bug him about my upper, and he gave me excellent news. There were a couple of errors on their website after they updated it, and I purchased the upper $100 less than it should of been. I found that to be good news, but the best was yet to come. He then informed me that they no longer sell the upper I ordered in 6.5 grendel so he upgraded my order to the 18" stainless steel 264 lbc (liberty barrel) free of charge and said he would do his best to get it out this Friday. This is extremely good news to me, because this is the upper I wanted in the first place but had to save some cash for glass.
I have ordered a Sightron SII Big Sky 3-12 mildot, and nikon m-223 20 moa mount to mate the glass and rifle together. The scope has 70 moa of adjustment, so I believe I can chase those pesky targets out to 1000 yards.... We'll see! If anyone has experience with this mount I'd love to hear something about it. It doesn't seem to be real common however, I was able to pick it up for $69.
I've got a 10rd magazine and 80 rounds of 123gr amax on the way, so when everything gets here I will post pictures (assuming I can figure it out) along with a range report. I will be handloading once I can accumulate some brass. I dont know the twist rate yet but I am hoping I can work up some 123 gr amax rounds that this grendel will like.
I really want to say thanks to Erik and LWS and if the gun shoots half as good as their service I would recommend them to anyone.
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What barrel did you order that was less expensive than the Liberty barrels, which were the economy line?
And why have they switched from Grendel chambers to the non-SAAMI 264 LBC?
Hopefully it all goes well for you!
You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live. - John Galt
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Guess I won't be getting a Loki rifle after all...
bwaites Wrote:What barrel did you order that was less expensive than the Liberty barrels, which were the economy line?
And why have they switched from Grendel chambers to the non-SAAMI 264 LBC?
Hopefully it all goes well for you!
The 16" barrel was a liberty barrel. However it was only a 16" black barrel. I will now be getting an 18" SS barrel. After all is said and done, I spent over $300 less than I should of and they are taking the hit (as most customers would expect). Either way, its obvious they value their customers!
Erik told me they have switched because the 264 LBC seemed to re-chamber more efficiently.
BjornF16 Wrote:Guess I won't be getting a Loki rifle after all...
What part of this thread has turned you away from Loki?
The only negative I can see in my transaction with Loki is that there IT guy made some mistakes when updating the website (it has changed completely). Mistakes like this will be made in any business, but how they handle the mistakes tells me what kind of company they are.
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louieprkr Wrote:What part of this thread has turned you away from Loki?
The only negative I can see in my transaction with Loki is that there IT guy made some mistakes when updating the website (it has changed completely). Mistakes like this will be made in any business, but how they handle the mistakes tells me what kind of company they are.
Nothing in your transaction, only the chambering. I own 2 x Grendels that I have assembled for hunting...I am looking for a complete SBR in Grendel. I'm not interested in 264 LBC (or any Grendel clone by any other name). Just my personal preference.
As far as Loki as a company, I am disappointed they have abandoned Grendel for LBC. They seem like a great company. I am glad things worked out for you (I would expect a good company to treat their customers as they treated you)! 
Happy shooting!
I originally felt the same way you feel now. I felt the entire point of the 264 LBC was to take a cut out of Bill Alexander's paycheck (maybe it was). However with the grendel being SAAMI approved, i believe all proprietary is out the window (anyone feel free to correct me if this is not the case). If my assumption is correct it would be safe to say liberty decided to chamber what they felt worked best. Liberty has maintained an excellent reputation so I would see no need to switch barrel manufacturers due to what could practically boil down to the title of a chamber. Now there are a lot of assumptions in there and we all know what can happen when one "assumes" but that is my interpretation of it all.
However, I respect your patronage for the original grendel.
I should update... shortly after I got off the phone, corrections were made to their website. I'm sure the "IT guy" didn't have a great day.
This continues to baffle me. The name is the only significant difference in the chamber. Is there not more difference in a 5.56 vs. Wylde vs. .223 chamber than the Grendel vs. .264 LBC? In essence the .264 LBC is just a tighter spec chamber, like a .308 match chamber vs a standard sloppy .308 chamber. The only time you MIGHT be at a disadvantage with the LBC is if you go to war or are hunting dangerous game, neither one of which you are likely to do with the guns discussed on here. I still have yet to hear from somebody that has had actual feeding/reliability issues with a .264LBC chamber, only the conjectures and theories that it won't feed, etc., etc. In the gun industry there are many different specs for chambers and it is dealt with all the time. As long as you know what chamber you are getting, what's the problem with either? How many different chambers are out there for a 6BR? I can think of 1/2 dozen and I'm not a gunsmith.
"Seriously in reply to the OP the chambers assuming they are correct are essentially interchangeable with respect to the ammunition. The Wolf ammunition is probably not a consideration for a high end barrel. Both Hornady and AA ammunition (Lapua) will run fine in either chamber." Bill Alexander on this forum responding to a .264 LBC vs Grendel question.
I respect decisions to support one or the other based on personal relationships, preferences, etc., but let's not pretend it should be based on any more than that.
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Quote:This continues to baffle me
I don't know why you are baffled. I explained I already have two Grendels (and all my reloading is setup for Grendel).
There have been plenty of posts on this site which discuss various issues (not all second hand).
My SBR is for "dangerous game"...a home defense SBR. Why would I want to chance the possibility of feeding issues when I already have a proven setup in Grendel?
I would not use a "Wylde" chamber for a home defense weapon...nor would I use a .308 "match" setup.
BjornF16: I am not trying to sway you in any way, but I do believe your reloading set up would be 100% interchangeable and likely just as efficient, accurate, and reliable. But to each his own so keep enjoying those grendels. The way I see it, we are all shooting grendels.
Reloading setup for Grendel is the same for the LBC. Bill A. himself said the ammo would run fine in either chamber, I don't think there is an issue. I think more issues are caused by the builders of the guns than the chambers, evidenced by all the questions on this forum about how to build an upper. Not that there is anything wrong with building one's own, but I would bet most feeding issues, etc., come from this. I don't care what chamber is on a rifle, .264, Grendel, Wylde, 5.56. If it proves to be reiialble, then why not use it for home defense? Doesn't matter to me what you use, just clarifying for those that read somebody won't do business with a company just because they chamber in .LBC instead of Grendel.
So does anyone have any experience with the m-223 mount from nikon. My only concern would be that there m223 scopes have had mixed reviews with there turrets. I know that these are very distant products in that respect, but I'd like to hear someone out there that has liked it. Honestly I'm a bit concerned that more dont use it. For $70 you have a one piece ar mount with a 20 moa cant. I couldn't afford the larue and the burris did not have the 20 moa. I would just suspect more buyers found themselves in my position?
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Bill Alexander was referring to factory spec ammunition, built at the factory and in barrels appropriately chambered. ALL of the issues associated with the .264 chamberings have been associated with barrels chambered in other than the correct, SAAMI chambering. (I'm not referring to the occasional issue associated with machining errors.)
The Grendel chamber was specifically designed for the ability to use the vast majority of bullets between 75 and 140 grains available in 6.5. The .264 LBC was specifically designed to shoot one bullet very well, the 123 AMAX. It MIGHT shoot others well also, but where is the load development published regarding those loads?
We have lots of good information regarding appropriate loads for the Grendel chamber, but I have yet to see Les Baer (apart from the one load), CSS, Model 1, or ANYONE else, publish any loads that have been pressure tested in the other chambers.
Everyone assumes they will work, but no one with a test chamber has actually tested them, or if they have, they haven't put them out there for public consumption.
I like Loki's stuff too, but I won't buy something that is not appropriately tested, and the .264 hasn't been, period.
You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live. - John Galt
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01-12-2012, 01:10 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2012, 01:15 AM by BjornF16.)
Quote:
Doesn't matter to me what you use, just clarifying for those that read somebody won't do business with a company just because they chamber in .LBC instead of Grendel.
As I already explained in my original response to louieprkr..."personal preference".
Quote:
The only time you MIGHT be at a disadvantage with the LBC is if you go to war or are hunting dangerous game, neither one of which you are likely to do with the guns discussed on here.
Not sure why you changed your mind...I'm not taking the chance (nor dropping coin to find out).
Thanks for your inputs.
I'm quite surprised at the amount of controversy over the chambers. I haven't read of any practical differences between the two. I guess it should be no surprise that people are very passionate about what they use to protect them and their loved ones.
Lots of good input though. Anyone have any reliable source (link) to the creation of the 264 and it's actual differences from the grendel. I believe there is enough information at our disposal throughout the forum, and I'm sure there is some good "scientific" information out there, I'd just like to read about myself.
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Read this thread:
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...BHW-Barrel
I personally like Bill A.'s response... 
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but different headspacing means different reloading setup.
Now I respect your decision even more. Lets just hope I have no regrets with Liberty's 264lbc. I will be sure to update.
Thanks for the link. Any others?
when satern gets the all go on the copyrite stuff he will start putting grendel on them again ......so it will be all ok lol
Jwilson, have you noticed any differences between the two chambers. To my knowledge loki has used them both.
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