Oregon ballot measure to ban "Assault" Weapons

[LR1955]

Guys:

Aside from the comment about a machete shooting people, done deliberately to entice others into an endless series of arguments, nothing Stan has said is out of order.

I won't ban someone or lock this forum because they are arguing a case against the majority unless the arguments turn into something stupid like the last 2A forum I locked.

If anyone here doesn't want to respond to someone, exercise some free will and do not respond.

I look at this particular thread a couple times a day so if it gets out of control, I will lock it.

LR55

[bj139]

Banning something because it's dangerous is something an out of control government does. Think about smoking and eating.
It is about government control of the people. We want limited government and they want all controlling government.

[BluntForceTrauma]

Civil disobedience is an American tradition. Worked during the civil rights era when protesters insisted their 14th and 15th amendment rights be respected. Might be useful in the "gun rights era," as well, as protesters insist their 2nd amendment rights also be respected.

[montana]

Not necessarily. Guns are used because of their availability and ease of use. The same is not true of bombs.

I agree Stan, this is why hands and feet kill more people in the US every year than all assault weapons combined.

[centerfire]

It looks like Democrats are backing away from this ballot measure, at least publicly. The belief is the proposal is too polarising to conservatives and moderates and will cause a huge backlash. Not to mention the proposed measure on it face appears to be unconstitutional.

[Popeye212]

Thanks Tex

[BjornF16]

I don't pretend to know what the problem is, but clearly the availability of guns like the AR-15 exacerbate the problem.

After all, if the only guns available were flintlock muzzleloaders, we would not have had any of these mass shootings...

Clearly, guns are not the problem:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...China.html

Chinese authorities say two WOMEN were part of knife-wielding terror gang which left at least 33 dead and 143 wounded after attacking a train station in China

[biodsl]

It looks like Democrats are backing away from this ballot measure, at least publicly. The belief is the proposal is too polarising to conservatives and moderates and will cause a huge backlash. Not to mention the proposed measure on it face appears to be unconstitutional.

Link? What's your source? Fantastic news, if true!!!

[BjornF16]

Japan had problems with edged blades as well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre

Osaka school massacre

The Osaka school massacre took place on June 8, 2001, at Ikeda Elementary School, an elite primary school affiliated with Osaka Kyoiku University in Osaka Prefecture, Japan.

The attack
At 10:15 that morning, 37-year-old former janitor Mamoru Takuma entered the school armed with a kitchen knife and began stabbing school children and teachers. He killed eight children, mostly aged seven and eight, and seriously wounded thirteen other children and two teachers.

Aftermath
Takuma was diagnosed with paranoid personality disorder. He was later convicted and sentenced to death by hanging. He was executed on September 14, 2004.

The attack was the fifth largest mass murder, along with the Matsumoto incident, in recent Japanese history, exceeded in fatalities only by the Tokyo subway sarin attack, the Osaka movie theater fire, the Sagamihara stabbings, and the Myojo 56 building fire. The incident set itself apart, however, by the age of the victims, its venue (a school), and the perpetrator's history of mental illness. Because of these factors, the attack raised questions about Japan's social policies for dealing with mental illness, the rights of victims and criminals, and the accessibility and security of Japanese schools.

After the attack, Yoshio Yamane, the principal administrator of the school, announced that it would bring in a security guard, an at-the-time unheard-of practice at Japanese schools. Additionally, J-pop artist Hikaru Utada rearranged her song "Distance" in honor of Rena Yamashita, one of the murdered schoolgirls (because of an essay contest the girl had won, talking about how she respected and wanted to be like Hikaru), renaming it "Final Distance".

[biodsl]

Civil disobedience is an American tradition. Worked during the civil rights era when protesters insisted their 14th and 15th amendment rights be respected. Might be useful in the "gun rights era," as well, as protesters insist their 2nd amendment rights also be respected.

That's my thinking. We have a ways to go on this particular initiative. If my facts are correct, the "Godfather" petitioner has until July 8th to get just over 88,000 legal signatures to qualify for the November ballot. That's probably their biggest hurdle. Once on the ballot, Everytown will dump a TON of money to get it passed and, needing only a simple majority, I suspect the urban centers will pass it. I still don't really know if it can be challenged as a ballot initiative or if we have to wait until it's law and there's an 'injured' party with standing.

[biodsl]

[quote=BjornF16]Clearly, guns are not the problem:[QUOTE]

Courtesy of Dr. John Lott at the Crime Prevention Research Center. A rather lengthy list of mass knife attacks from around the world.

https://crimeresearch.org/2014/04/a-note...e-attacks/

[montana]

Japan had problems with edged blades as well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre

Looks like the authorities cured him of his homicidal tendency:

He was later convicted and sentenced to death by hanging. He was executed on September 14, 2004.

[BjornF16]

Clearly, guns are not the problem:

Courtesy of Dr. John Lott at the Crime Prevention Research Center. A rather lengthy list of mass knife attacks from around the world.

https://crimeresearch.org/2014/04/a-note...e-attacks/

Thanks for the tip...just bought one of his books

[LR1955]

Guys:

Not sure what you don't get about this. Do any of you think it matters that a Japanese guy killed fifteen people with a knife some 15 years ago? Or even if an American did the same today anywhere in the USA.

The left, by and large, absolutely hates conservatives, and they view firearms as a symbol of their opponents. To the leftists, taking away your firearms is seen as a huge victory for them. That's why they have been absolutely relentless in the quest to ban the private ownership of ALL firearms, except for themselves, for the last fifty years.

So today you guys will watch the major metropolitan areas of the East and West Coasts filled with Young Pioneers gleefully doing the bidding of their masters. And you will see leftist politicians out there with them, with their armed guards, ridiculing, damning, and condemning anyone who owns a semi automatic firearm.

Some of you will sit back and think it is just rhetoric.

You guys who do not live around these types have no clue. You think they will leave you alone. You are 100% wrong.

LR55

[bj139]

LR,
I often wonder why these Young Pioneers do the bidding of their masters. It seems a sickness to me.
I guess they think their masters will give them everything they want without working.
I have heard that in many of the protests, the leaders are paid instigators, hired by a foundation funded by George Soros.

[BjornF16]

Guys:

Not sure what you don't get about this. Do any of you think it matters that a Japanese guy killed fifteen people with a knife some 15 years ago? Or even if an American did the same today anywhere in the USA.

The left, by and large, absolutely hates conservatives, and they view firearms as a symbol of their opponents. To the leftists, taking away your firearms is seen as a huge victory for them. That's why they have been absolutely relentless in the quest to ban the private ownership of ALL firearms, except for themselves, for the last fifty years.

So today you guys will watch the major metropolitan areas of the East and West Coasts filled with Young Pioneers gleefully doing the bidding of their masters. And you will see leftist politicians out there with them, with their armed guards, ridiculing, damning, and condemning anyone who owns a semi automatic firearm.

Some of you will sit back and think it is just rhetoric.

You guys who do not live around these types have no clue. You think they will leave you alone. You are 100% wrong.

LR55

LR55

Not rhetoric...I think most are fighting back...engaging elected officials; writing letters to companies.

I just used my AAdvantage Citi card to donate to NRA-ILA, GOA, and SAF today as a counter protest to the marches today; I plan on sending Citi a letter letting them know how I feel and what I've done. I've used my Citi card these last two weeks buying various gun paraphernalia (including SilencerCo Omega can)...I will use it to buy my next two Sig pistols in the coming weeks.

Why post about knife attacks? To counter some of the silly comments made in the thread. In order to counter marxist gun arguments, you need to have facts to refute their claims including identifying other types of attacks that have been equally deadly.

Funny, young marxist Hogg is crying about his school violating his 1A rights because they are forcing students to use clear back packs at school...wtf?

https://www.dailywire.com/news/28566/bac...n-saavedra

https://www.dailywire.com/news/28609/wat...n-saavedra

[rabiddawg]

It isn't "anti-gun rhetoric" to recognize that the availability of self-loading firearms and high-capacity magazines is what enables mass shootings to be conducted.

Y'all can stick your heads in the sand and delude yourselves into believing the gun is not a factor, but that will neither solve the problem, nor stop anti-gun laws.

Self loading firearms and high capacity magazines have been around a lot longer than this “mass shooting” trend.

The guns have changed very little.

PEOPLE HAVE CHANGED A LOT!

GUNS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM!

[LR1955]

LR,
I often wonder why these Young Pioneers do the bidding of their masters. It seems a sickness to me.
I guess they think their masters will give them everything they want without working.
I have heard that in many of the protests, the leaders are paid instigators, hired by a foundation funded by George Soros.

BJ:

You are pretty much correct in all regards. They have been educated to believe in Socialism and yes, they do want everything without having to work.

And yes, someone funded this effort. Most likely Soros.

One thing they aren't betting on in Seattle and Portland is the Anarchists. Anarchists love these types of demonstrations because it allows them more leeway to commit vandalism and riot without a response.

Also, I imagine the leftists in Seattle and Portland will deliberately do something in order to get arrested. It is like a right of passage around those parts.

I no longer live on the 'West Side' of the Cascades so can sit back and watch it on TV. Except that the media here won't report the hammer and sickle signs, the anarchists vandalizing, the Communist Party activists, et. al who will gladly use the useful idiots from the high schools as cover for their antics.

LR55

[montana]

Guys:

Not sure what you don't get about this. Do any of you think it matters that a Japanese guy killed fifteen people with a knife some 15 years ago? Or even if an American did the same today anywhere in the USA.

The left, by and large, absolutely hates conservatives, and they view firearms as a symbol of their opponents. To the leftists, taking away your firearms is seen as a huge victory for them. That's why they have been absolutely relentless in the quest to ban the private ownership of ALL firearms, except for themselves, for the last fifty years.

So today you guys will watch the major metropolitan areas of the East and West Coasts filled with Young Pioneers gleefully doing the bidding of their masters. And you will see leftist politicians out there with them, with their armed guards, ridiculing, damning, and condemning anyone who owns a semi automatic firearm.

Some of you will sit back and think it is just rhetoric.

You guys who do not live around these types have no clue. You think they will leave you alone. You are 100% wrong.

LR55

The left is a brain washed cult, plain and simple. My wife's cousin stopped talking to us because we love the shooting sports. Leftist are so far removed from any type of reality or maturity, it is a waste of time trying to have any dialog with them. It is the fence sitters and undecided who I try to reach and haven't surrendered their free will yet. Like Bjorn F16 I have contacted all the businesses who support the "cant decide which bathroom to use crowd" and keep giving to all the pro gun organizations. These type of people have been around for a long time. The better red than dead people were cut from the same cloth.

[biodsl]

They have begun circulating the petition in Portland. A friend just posted this on his Facebook page. I could hug him.

I kinda feel bad for the 18 year old girl that just knocked on my door asking me to sign a petition to ban A.R. 15‘s. I asked her if she could identify an AR 15 if I showed her a picture of one, she said “yes” at first and then quietly said “no...” I asked her if she’d ever shot a gun of any kind. She said “no.” I asked her why she thought guns were bad. She said she “didn’t think guns were inherently bad.” So I asked her why she wanted to ban them. ... she looked down at her script and was lost. I thanked her for taking part in the process of voter involvement. And she told me to have a great day. People wake up! The inanimate object is not the problem.