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Bill Alexander once made on offhand comment to me that he thought the now discontinued Alliant Reloder 12 was perhaps the ideal general-purpose, multi-bullet-weight powder for 6.5 Grendel.
Now that I see IMR's updated burn rate chart, I see that IMR 4166 is close to R12. Does this mean it has promise? Anybody tried it?
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I tried 4166 with 123 gr amax , kernels too big , 27 gr. Only 2292 fps.
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Yeah. I found It to be very comparable to Varget, but like old dog, I found you couldn’t get enough of it in the case to do any good. It worked quite well with my .308, though.
If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?
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Cool. Good info, guys.
:: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets
:: I Drank the Water :: Revelation 21:6 ::
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Using the tumbler to vibrate the cases, also used a tooth brush for some to settle the powder to fit more in the case. I got over 2600fps (123gr SST) from the boltaction and it's 22 inch barrel, that load was on the hot side for sure and no doubt compressed. Was able to get 2500 from it though with a little primer flattening but no craters on the primer and was using up some Winchester SRP that were handy so with that thinner cup not surprised with some flattening. Switched to 130 and 129s mostly but get my health back I plan on working more with 4166. Like Varget in the Grendel you will hear some crunch seating the bullet but it appears it could be a good powder for accuracy and ok on speed within pressures for the GRR if you don't mind a little crunch seating the bullet.
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If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?
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I got it. Mortar and Pestle! We can get this done if we think outside the ol' box. Just grind it down and cram more in! Nothing to worry about, right?
(Disclaimer: this is a try at humor, do not attempt... the previous statement made to ward off the eventual stupid.)
Really, though. The temp-stability of the Enduron line is really something you would think IMR would be pursuing whole hog. The line thus far seems more limited to the cases and calibers most likely to end up on a competition line somewhere rather than out in the woods or on a pasture floor...
The temperature stability aspect is especially nice considering that pre-season load workup is difficult to do in places like where I live in KS, where it's as likely as not to swing 60+ degrees weekend to weekend. Thus far, we've just had to find a "good enough" load and if possible, practice at range in different temps to ensure knowledge of performance in the field. Being able to work up a load in the latter end of august, (likely 100+) and be able to count on that same zero in the end of september (50-90?) let alone in the end of November (70-0) through mid January (70-0); for the available rifle seasons is very nice indeed. There is a big difference in the measured impact at 200 among the factory ELD I have looked at. More than an inch, unless it's me. Which it could be. But the point is made none the less...
I'd guess that there's just not that many folks that lose sleep over that kind of trajectory change - especially for hunting where terminal performance is statistically way below 300 yards anyway.
Really though, I wonder how hard it would be for IMR to make a finer granulated version, give it a new number, and add it to the line? From the looks of it, there wouldn't have to be a very drastic change to the physical structure of the granules in order to fill the case more properly.
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Kswhitetails Wrote:I got it. Mortar and Pestle! We can get this done if we think outside the ol' box. Just grind it down and cram more in! Nothing to worry about, right?
(Disclaimer: this is a try at humor, do not attempt... the previous statement made to ward off the eventual stupid.)
Really, though. The temp-stability of the Enduron line is really something you would think IMR would be pursuing whole hog. The line thus far seems more limited to the cases and calibers most likely to end up on a competition line somewhere rather than out in the woods or on a pasture floor...
The temperature stability aspect is especially nice considering that pre-season load workup is difficult to do in places like where I live in KS, where it's as likely as not to swing 60+ degrees weekend to weekend. Thus far, we've just had to find a "good enough" load and if possible, practice at range in different temps to ensure knowledge of performance in the field. Being able to work up a load in the latter end of august, (likely 100+) and be able to count on that same zero in the end of september (50-90?) let alone in the end of November (70-0) through mid January (70-0); for the available rifle seasons is very nice indeed. There is a big difference in the measured impact at 200 among the factory ELD I have looked at. More than an inch, unless it's me. Which it could be. But the point is made none the less...
I'd guess that there's just not that many folks that lose sleep over that kind of trajectory change - especially for hunting where terminal performance is statistically way below 300 yards anyway.
Really though, I wonder how hard it would be for IMR to make a finer granulated version, give it a new number, and add it to the line? From the looks of it, there wouldn't have to be a very drastic change to the physical structure of the granules in order to fill the case more properly.
I have a 100fps swing from 25 degrees to 50 degrees with RE15 in a mild 150gr 308 load. I may have to give some of this powder a try. Too bad I have 20lbs of RE15.
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Nosler recommends 4166 as the most accurate powder for their 130gr rdf bullet. The velocity isn't that great but Nosler claims that it's themost acurate powder they tested.
https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/65-grendel/
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I tried it with RDF's, nothing to write home about but I can't get 130 RDF's to shoot for crap, I think it had to do with only being able to fit a 2.255 oal into my magazines at the time. 4166 did no worse than anything else. I recall SD's being decent and velocity low. I think I have some under some 140 Nosler CC's somewhere but they seem to have grown legs, which is probably for the best as I have basically made up the data for those bullets. People aren't kidding about the big grain size - this stuff is like fricken Kingsford charcoal. According to my notes I was compressed at 24.6 grains, which is where a possible accuracy node started - seemed to enjoy being compressed. I don't have velocity data for some reason, must have recorded it somewhere else
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Just not enough velocity on my tests.
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Just finished a day at the range with 130RDF’S and IMR4166. 25.0 grains did great in my PSA 12”...Which makes total sense as this barrel likes it a little slower than my rifles. I am more concerned about precision than speed...trying to hit 12” steel at 500 yards with my 12” Pistol. .825 Group at 100 yards. Loaded up another 15 rounds to test and see if I can duplicate today’s group.
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I just shot 4166 out of my Athris 22" upper and it did .5moa 5 shots all touching in a horizontal string @ 100yds, 10 mph wind and 38 degrees fht. I used 120 Nosler 120 BT over 25 Grains of 4166 no signs of primer issue . I didn't use a chronograph and the round did Not cycle. I'm gonna try upping the wht to 25.5 - 26 gr. and see what happens. Also a can try adj gas port. Let you know
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centerfire Wrote:I have a 100fps swing from 25 degrees to 50 degrees with RE15 in a mild 150gr 308 load. I may have to give some of this powder a try. Too bad I have 20lbs of RE15.
I've never been as enamored with Re15 as everyone else. It can shoot good, but it's a poor flowing powder with poor T stability. 8208 is a much easier to flow powder that has good T stability.
I have some 4166. 4166 is a good powder I suppose, but to me is a powder looking for a home. There's no sweet-spot for it. It's a coarse flowing powder with a burn rate in an overcrowded zone already, and is so bulky you can't get enough into cases where it should shine. I'm guessing maybe it's a good 30-06 powder, since that casing has lots of void space. But it's too fast for 6.5 CM, and too bulky for Grendel.
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4166 works great in the 30-06 with 130 TTSX. 3200fps+, no copper in the tube, great temp stability. unfortunately there is no current copper removing temp stable powder that's in the 6.5 G's wheelhouse. Benchmark works pretty well for temp stability but is not a copper remover. CFE223 will work with heavier bullets in the 6.5 Grendel, and removes copper, but is not great at temp stability.
Alliant PPV gives great velocities across the board, but is neither a copper remover or temp stable.
-tdbru
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by the way, H4895 is a bit faster burning rate than IMR4166 and is pretty temp stable. i have seen 6.5Gr. loads listed with H4895, usually with the heavier bullets.
-tdbru
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tdbru Wrote:by the way, H4895 is a bit faster burning rate than IMR4166 and is pretty temp stable. i have seen 6.5Gr. loads listed with H4895, usually with the heavier bullets.
-tdbru
Not just the heavy's. Haven't finished my work up yet but it does reallllllllllly good with 123 eld-m and ppu brass.
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A5B, you're right, i should have clarified what i meant by heavier. heavier than the 85s through 107s. it works pretty well with the 120s and up.
-tdbru.
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