1,000 Yard Comparison - SST vs AMAX

[sirriccus]

Here's my 6.5 Grendel setup. Just broke her in the Saturday before last and have taken her out twice since then.

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Shilen 20" HBAR 1/9 Threaded 5/8x24 with Surefire MB762 QD Brake
Shilen Match Bolt
JP Enterprises Adjustable Gas Block
Midwest Industries 15" Gen II Keymod Rail
Juggernaut Tacital 80% Billet Receiver Set
Lantac ECT-1 3# Flat Trigger
Vortex HS LR 2.5-10x32 FFP
American Defense AD Recon 30 QD Cantilever Mount

I've run factory Hornady 123 gr. SST, Hornady 123 gr. AMAX, and a couple very conservative handloads. It's all done alright thus far.

Zero'd at 300 yards with a 38 MPH crosswind (that was not fun shooting in). She held her own with a 3.4" group several times. Shocked at 6.5 Grendel's ability to deflect wind.

The next weekend (this past Sunday), I took her out straight to 1,000 yards. Hardly any wind (7-8 MPH). Hornady 123 gr. SST's found the 16" gong on the third shot. Dialed 34 MOA with zero windage.

First group - 4/8 hits
Second group - 5/8 hits

Next was the Hornady 123 gr. AMAX.

First group - 6/8 hits
Seconds group - 7/8 hits

Repeated again with very similar results. Found that my rifle likes the AMAX more at distance. So did my friends 6.5 Grendel setup with 19" Lija barrel and Omega 30 can.

Running OWC (Optimal Weight Charge) and ladder tests this upcoming weekend with SMK 123 gr. HPBT's and Hornady 123 gr. ELD-M's with 8208 XBR, TAC, and Varget. All Hornady brass at COAL of 2.255" (.010 off lands) to start. After that, I'll take her back out to 1,000 and get some good DOPE and hopefully group decently with some practice.

I'm also throwing a Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 today or tomorrow considering the distances she's going to be pushed out.

Looking forward to sharing my experiences and gaining data from all of yours.

[VASCAR2]

Great looking rifle and sounds like you have a real shooter. I also have a 20" Shilen and it's a keeper. Just curious at what elevation your shooting. I've considered a Vortex 2.5-10X32 Vortex for my 16" Faxon. I assume your Vortex scope had enough internal adjustment to get to 1000 yards (34 MOA)? I know your swapping scopes so do you feel you need more than 10 power magnification at 1000 yards. I put a 20 MOA mount on my Shilen but I usually shoot at 350'-400' ASL. Decisions decisions but part of the fun.

My go to load for my Shilen is 31.0 grains CFE with CCI 450 primers in Lapua cases at 2.255 COAL with 123 Nosler CC. This load is MOA or better out to 880 yards for me. This load matches or exceeds the velocity I get for factory Hornady 123 grain A-Max depending on lot number.

[lrgrendel]

Nice looking rifle.

Don't waste your time or components on Varget espically at 1000 yds, you won't get the velocity.

Great shooting too BTW.....

[sirriccus]

Great looking rifle and sounds like you have a real shooter. I also have a 20" Shilen and it's a keeper. Just curious at what elevation your shooting. I've considered a Vortex 2.5-10X32 Vortex for my 16" Faxon. I assume your Vortex scope had enough internal adjustment to get to 1000 yards (34 MOA)? I know your swapping scopes so do you feel you need more than 10 power magnification at 1000 yards. I put a 20 MOA mount on my Shilen but I usually shoot at 350'-400' ASL. Decisions decisions but part of the fun.

My go to load for my Shilen is 31.0 grains CFE with CCI 450 primers in Lapua cases at 2.255 COAL with 123 Nosler CC. This load is MOA or better out to 880 yards for me. This load matches or exceeds the velocity I get for factory Hornady 123 grain A-Max depending on lot number.

Elevation 2,028 ft.
48 degrees
Barometric pressure 30.17
Wind 7-8 MPH
Density altitude 2,574 ft.

It was exactly 34 MOA internal adjustment so it was maxed out at 1,000 yards with that ammo on that day. The Vortex Viper HS LR 2.5-10x32 is an awesome scope and it is more than capable at 1,000 yards (I'm evidence of that considering I'm not the best of shooters). I just rather have more optic considering I'm going to try and push 1,200-1,400 yards once I get a handload that has the velocity to drive out.

With a 20 MOA mount, it would be perfect. That's what I intend on doing regardless. Zeroing at 300-400 yards helps as well.

I have yet to load CFE, but everyone Grendel wise seems to love the stuff so I'll certainly need to try it sometime soon. Thanks for sharing!

[sirriccus]

Nice looking rifle.

Don't waste your time or components on Varget espically at 1000 yds, you won't get the velocity.

Great shooting too BTW.....

Thanks! I'm sure you're right, but I want some inform on it regardless. I'm not betting on it giving me any great results though.

[jeffreybehr]

I have yet to load CFE, but everyone Grendel wise seems to love the stuff so I'll certainly need to try it sometime soon.

I've assembled a spreadsheet of 6.5G maximum loads from a half-dozen sources; e-mail me at jeffreybehr(at)cox(dot)net and I'll send you a copy. Two separate sources confirm that CFE223 generates the highest velocities with 120-123g. bullet.

[sirriccus]

I've assembled a spreadsheet of 6.5G maximum loads from a half-dozen sources; e-mail me at jeffreybehr(at)cox(dot)net and I'll send you a copy. Two separate sources confirm that CFE223 generates the highest velocities with 120-123g. bullet.

I actually emailed you earlier this afternoon. Thank you for the offer and work you put into it.

[VASCAR2]

Elevation 2,028 ft.
48 degrees
Barometric pressure 30.17
Wind 7-8 MPH
Density altitude 2,574 ft.

It was exactly 34 MOA internal adjustment so it was maxed out at 1,000 yards with that ammo on that day. The Vortex Viper HS LR 2.5-10x32 is an awesome scope and it is more than capable at 1,000 yards (I'm evidence of that considering I'm not the best of shooters). I just rather have more optic considering I'm going to try and push 1,200-1,400 yards once I get a handload that has the velocity to drive out.

With a 20 MOA mount, it would be perfect. That's what I intend on doing regardless. Zeroing at 300-400 yards helps as well.

I have yet to load CFE, but everyone Grendel wise seems to love the stuff so I'll certainly need to try it sometime soon. Thanks for sharing!

Thanks sirriccus for the info. I think the 2.5-10X32 will be light enough to still make my Faxon build handy and a 20 MOA mount will ensure I have enough elevation to reach where my bullets go subsonic.

[LRRPF52]

Here's a rapid-fired 6rd group at 1000yds from a Lilja 318 barreled 1/8 twist, lightweight Grendel with a 31.2gr load of CFE under the 123gr AMAX:

[sirriccus]

That makes me feel very inadequate as a shooter. LOL Is that 1/8-1/4 MOA?

Absolutely fantastic shooting. I need to practice more.

[LRRPF52]

That makes me feel very inadequate as a shooter. LOL Is that 1/8-1/4 MOA?

Absolutely fantastic shooting. I need to practice more.

It's 8" vertical and 4" horizontal. The other larger impacts are from 178gr Hornady fired from a Knight's SR25 at one of my courses.

[Redomen]

Beautiful rifle!

[DJudge]

Great looking rifle and super grouping at that range.

[shooter545]

Very nice looking rifle!!

[kevperro]

Awesome shooting... wish I had a 1000 yard range in my neighborhood.

[Cockednlocked]

It was exactly 34 MOA internal adjustment so it was maxed out at 1,000 yards with that ammo on that day. The Vortex Viper HS LR 2.5-10x32 is an awesome scope and it is more than capable at 1,000 yards (I'm evidence of that considering I'm not the best of shooters). I just rather have more optic considering I'm going to try and push 1,200-1,400 yards once I get a handload that has the velocity to drive out.

With a 20 MOA mount, it would be perfect. That's what I intend on doing regardless. Zeroing at 300-400 yards helps as well.

I have yet to load CFE, but everyone Grendel wise seems to love the stuff so I'll certainly need to try it sometime soon. Thanks for sharing!

I'm beginning to think that Vortex has about the best glass you can get for the money. I don't know anyone with a Vortex that doesn't love it. I've got a 6-24x50 HST on my Grendel. I was out of adjustment at 900 yards, holding over 14 MOA at 1000, and holding over 30 MOA at 1125, which was as far as I shot that day because I was completely out of scope by then. The instructor (Dan Newberry) recommended a 20 MOA mount, and I went and ordered one that evening. I have a potential of 60MOA adjustment now, from my 100 yard zero. This will theoretically get me to 1550 yards before I run out of adjustment now. I went with a Warne mount at Dan's recommendation, and I'm not the least bit sorry. Very nicely made.

I've only loaded two powders for my 6.5G, BL-C(2) and CFE-223. I'm sticking with the CFE. The loads I took to Bangsteel was 31.5 grains CFE-223 and 123 AMAX, and according to Dan's ballistics program, they would still be supersonic at 1175 yards at our altitude and weather conditions that day. My chrono data with these loads gave me 2560 +/- 3 fps on the 20 rounds I measured, in a 20 inch 1:8 Odinworks barrel, semiauto action (AR15). I have been getting consistent 1 MOA groups out to 300 yards at my local range, and they seemed to hold no more than 1-1/2 MOA at 1000 yards, considering the percentage hits I was getting on 18x18" steel plates at that distance.

I took a small batch of 123 SMK's loaded to 31.5 grains CFE-223, and shot them at 500 yards after shooting the AMAX loads. Using my AMAX zero, the SMK's hit about 1-1/2" higher at 500 yards. I would assume the fly a tiny bit flatter than the AMAX. I've got a box of the new Hornady ELD 123's, and I want to try the 130 gr. Tipped MK's. I'm hoping the very nice BC of those might at least partially compensate for a slightly lower MV due to lost case capacity. At any rate, I'll stick with the CFE-223 for all my loads.

[LRRPF52]

123gr ELD-M (.506 G1) and 123gr SMK (.522) have better BCs than the 123gr SST (.462) and 123gr AMAX (.468).

I would also look at the 130gr ELD-M on top of CFE223. Should be able to get 2500fps from your barrel.

Another would be the 130gr Berger Hybrid AR OTM, 130gr VLD, and 130gr Norma GT. You'll notice a difference in wind drift and impact on steel with the modern 130gr high BC offerings.

Hit probability goes up with them in the wind.

[jcjarmon]

That 130gr Berger Hybrid AR is nothing short of FanDAmTastic. 2770 FPS out of a 26 inch barrel, with 30.2MOA on the optics.

[LRRPF52]

That 130gr Berger Hybrid AR is nothing short of FanDAmTastic. 2770 FPS out of a 26 inch barrel, with 30.2MOA on the optics.

What cartridge?

My 22" .260 Rem will do 2820fps with 130gr VLD on top of H4350, but that's with 13gr more powder and 10,000 psi more working pressure, and a rifle that weighs 2x what my Lilja 318 Grendel does.

[jackwagon]

Bang steel in Wytheville Va? I was thinking about going for a weekend, trying to talk my shooting buddy into it.
How did you like it.