Having a Vision

[LRRPF52]

I'm listening to Arnold Schwarzenegger's autobiography, Total Recall, My Unbelievable True Life Story.

There are so many lessons about succeeding in this work, the first 2 chapters are worth $1000 easily, and I'm listening to it for free from the library.

I had no clue all the things he was involved in. He was a hustler when it comes to business.

He arrived in the US in 1967 with a gym bag full of clothes, and made his first million in real estate. Before his success in real estate, he started a European brick-laying business with his Italian training partner, Franco Columbu, and made a lot of money renovating people's homes in the LA area.

I think the most important lesson is how so very clear his vision was from an early age back in Austria. He had seen his first film, Tarzan, with his older brother, and it had a life-changing impact on him.

He quickly envisioned a clear path for himself. He knew he was going to America after that, was going to make a million dollars, and was going to be a movie star. There simply was the vision, and he needed a way to make it happen.

He became very strategic in his thinking, since it wasn't like he could just hop on a plane and fly to the US. He started hanging out with athletes, with no particular knowledge about the different sports. He avoided the ones that could involve travel to the US, but only for brief visits and then back to Austria.

Body-building was really his ticket to the US, that would allow him to stay here permanently. It was his big initial domino that would knock down even bigger dominoes on to the path of achieving his specific dreams.

His English was so bad, he couldn't even order cabbage in a restaurant without a gaffe, or thank a female host at a Christmas dinner party without turning a common Austrian colloquialism into a vulgar misstep, and yet he made a million very quickly, had already been cast in a lead role in his first film in 1969.

He started taking as many English classes, and then business classes. He wrote down his specific goals, and made index cards on a regular basis with very realistic, specific goals.

"I'm going to:

Get 12 more units in college,

Gain 7 pounds of solid muscle,

Earn enough money to save $5000,

Work out 5 hours a day,

Find an apartment building to buy and move into."

Since he was here on a work visa, he could not take more than 2 units from any college at a time, so he had to attend classes at Santa Monica, UCLA, West Los Angeles.

He took English, Business Administration, Math, History at Santa Monica.

At UCLA, he took courses from the Business school in Accounting, Economics, Marketing, and Management. He had already taken accounting in Austria, but he wanted to learn everything he possible could about business in the US, especially with the computing revolution.

Arnold out-hustled everyone in each of their prospective industries, whether it was body-building, real estate, marketing, business, and eventually Hollywood.

Having a clear vision for himself, specifically identifying his weaknesses and plans to make them strengths, then executing those plans relentlessly, resulted in his success.

When he failed, he failed quickly and immediately came up with a plan to recover from the lesson, and was ruthless with himself on what it was he needed to fix with himself, whether it was his accent, his calves, his posing, his marketing strategies, real estate mistakes with supersonic airport land in the desert, a car accident, etc.

I can't recommend the book enough.

[Klem]

Did you read about how he used to harass the girls back in Thal (Austria), whipping them with stinging nettles as they waited for the school bus?

He smashed the window on the second floor of the gym he trained at in Graz, so he could train on the weekends (when it was shut). That's how driven he was and you have to admire that...Unless you own the gym.

Then there was his admission to using steroids and how he has no regrets about using them in the lead-up to competitions. And how he used to psych' Lou Ferrigno out of matches by telling him how small his muscles were, as if he was genuinely concerned.

I like his movies and sense of humour, but that's about it. He's done well for himself in life and good luck to him. Check this clip out, it's pretty feel-good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w81g199L8YA

[montana]

Attitude and a goal makes all the difference. Everybody has different strengths and weaknesses but what they do with the cards they are dealt makes all the difference. Attitude in work, shooting, family and life in general separates people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU0BzZlwU4o
Hence my disdain for cry baby's with victim mentality.

[LRRPF52]

He talks about how he was pan-handling from old ladies in town to make money, in addition to selling ice cream to park-goers.

When his dad, who was the chief police inspector, found out about his pan-handling, he received physical punishment so severe, that he realized pan-handling wouldn't be a good career choice.

In the Austrian Army, he drove an M47 Patton Main Battle Tank through one of the maintenance building walls, bursting pipes and causing much damage, unaware the vehicle was moving until debris began to shower him.

Another time, he begged his drill instructors for emergency leave so he could compete in a body building event he had signed up for, but was denied, so he went AWOL.

He won the competition, returned to base, and was placed in confinement behind bars. Then they learned that he had won, so they let him out and celebrated.

While many people prefer to focus on the negative, I like looking at the total picture.

That is why I pick the success formula to focus on, rather than the colorful anecdotes of misdeeds.

He set records that were unprecedented at the time in just one career field, while moving on to others where he excelled past the competition as well, especially personal finance, number of blockbuster films as a lead role, #1 best-selling author of 9 different books that I could find, as well as becoming Governor of the most wealthy and powerful State in the US.

So for us as shooters, competitors, or achievers, there are very specific lessons to learn and he lays them out in detail in this book. It is jam-packed with practical actions that can be done to reach your goals and fulfill the vision you have for winning.

The clear vision, then index cards with specific goals are big examples. How many times do we go to the range, attend a match, go hunting, or anything in life just going through the motions? What if we closed out eyes beforehand, imagined clearly our success and end state, thought back what it would take to get there from that position at the top, and worked back to where we're at before starting?

He also plastered his walls with posters of body builders that he looked up to, and later was able to associate with those men many years later, with them mentoring him. Throughout the book, he makes it clear how much he learned from other people like Reg Park, Lucille Ball, Joe Weider, Franco Columbu, Sergio Oliva, world champ boxers, actors, businessmen and women, and so forth.

The lesson of association and its power is not lost when reading this book.

[Klem]

If you want to isolate Arnie's drive and passion then there is no doubt he is a focussed person. For me however he lacks integrity, and that unfortunately pollutes his achievements. He is a sportsman who took drugs. A husband who cheated on his wife. A self-absorbed narcissist who ended up as a politician. And as you say, he went AWOL in the military...not something I would valorise when it signifies an unreliable operator. Arguably the entire focus of all his amazing drive and passion has been for personal gain, sometimes at the expense of others. He does however star in entertaining movies.

Did you know in Roman times actors were the same ignoble status as prostitutes and reprobates? They were banned from many public events, yet now they command obscene sums of money and Referent power (French & Raven, 1959)...for pretending.

I am inspired by people who are driven to heroic self-sacrifice. There's a memorial in London's, Postman's Park for a handful of ordinary citizens who gave their lives to save others. In a similar vein I am inspired by all recipients of the Victoria Cross and the US Medal of Honor. Other's like the late Mother Teresa of Calcutta and Aung San Su Kyi are also impressive in their stewardship of others.

[montana]

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul?

[Fredman]

Life is full of choices. When we look back, some we are proud of, and some we aren't. Thanks LR. It's nice to hear followed his dreams and succeeded.

[bwaites]

Arnold certainly used focus to achieve his dreams, and you can take that lesson and apply it to your own life, without having to accept the negatives that he also made part of his life.

Klem, I regularly place MOH winners and their stories on my Facebook wall, but in researching them, I find that a significant number of them had few, (and many times only one!) episode where they actually exhibited that amazing example of altruism. They remain heroes to me because of it, but people like Mother Teresa hold a special place because of their life long exhibition of that love for others.

I am a strong believer in having heroes, because they inspire us, but choosing those heroes is critical.

[Drift]

I take '52s point about focus and getting what you want. I know a now retired brain surgeon who tells this story. (Background is that it takes 14-16 years of training to become a neurosurgeon). He decided to become a brain surgeon the summer between his 6th and 7th gradel. He stayed focused .High school biology nerd. Did premed in college then medical school and the of course general surgery. He tells the story that while assisting his first appendectomy, the surgeon told him to slice off the appendix while the surgeon held the clamps-he declined-he had no interest in general surgery you see.. just the brain. Became a respected neurosurgeon. He got what he wanted..Got filthy rich in the process.. Gave up a lot to get it.. Perhaps a little famous in medical circles. One moral to the story is you can have just about anything you want if you remain focused on it. Another moral for him was that pride comith before a fall.. and the State of Florida took every cent (but not his license to work) he ever made. And he ended up living with and off his family.

[Klem]

Guys,

I don't think we are too different in our take on this subject.

We all admire dreams and focus but there's a lot more to being a role model than just that. Hitler had dreams and focus, and millions were murdered because of it. Jeffrey Dahmer followed his dreams, which included boiling his victims in a pot. As for everyone having good and bad in them, sure, but there are some who are inwardly focussed, and some who focus on the care and betterment of others. I prefer the latter. Then, for those who care for others right at the end of that continuum there are those who are prepared to risk their lives, or even knowingly die, for others. Those are my role models. Arnold Swarzenegger does not even come close.

[LR1955]

Guys,

I don't think we are too different in our take on this subject.

We all admire dreams and focus but there's a lot more to being a role model than just that. Hitler had dreams and focus, and millions were murdered because of it. Jeffrey Dahmer followed his dreams, which included boiling his victims in a pot. As for everyone having good and bad in them, sure, but there are some who are inwardly focussed, and some who focus on the care and betterment of others. I prefer the latter. Then, for those who care for others right at the end of that continuum there are those who are prepared to risk their lives, or even knowingly die, for others. Those are my role models. Arnold Swarzenegger does not even come close.

Klem:

LRRP52 is not holding Arnold up as a role model. He is commenting about how Arnold's planning, goals setting, and drive allowed him to succeed where others failed.

In the late 60's, Sport or Performance Psychology was not a common science. Arnold used goals setting, imagery, and focus to attain what others couldn't. Although not uncommon practices for athletes in that time frame, these mental skills (plus a few others) were not formally practiced. Today these psychological skills are part of the training of any professional.

My experience with GI's and athletes is that almost all have a dream or dreams, about ten percent may even strive to attain their dream, but of that ten percent, less than one percent ever puts their plan down in writing using rational goals as benchmarks. And of that less than one percent who do, half will quit before they get half way, lacking confidence in their ability to achieve their goal or goals.

So, it isn't about Arnold's personal life or ethical conduct. More like a very well proven psychological methodology that Arnold used to achieve his goals.

LR55

[Klem]

This is a fascinating topic and I appreciate all your thoughts. It clarifies things for me certainly.

I don't think we can isolate a persons drive or structured method for motivation without considering the goals of the motivation. They are not mutually exclusive. Especially when Swarzenegger's name was valorized at the start of this thread. Such a shame that his method for achieving 'greatness' is tainted by his belief that the ends justify the means.

I read his biography a few years ago (not his autobiography). His method was/is to write down his goals. Ask himself whether they are achievable and then plan a way to get there. I am sure any number of life coaches have similar methods. Meaning, I am unconvinced Arnold has contributed anything more to humanity than an interesting spectacle of self indulgence.

[LR1955]

This is a fascinating topic and I appreciate all your thoughts. It clarifies things for me certainly.

I don't think we can isolate a persons drive or structured method for motivation without considering the goals of the motivation. They are not mutually exclusive. Especially when Swarzenegger's name was valorized at the start of this thread. Such a shame that his method for achieving 'greatness' is tainted by his belief that the ends justify the means.

I read his biography a few years ago (not his autobiography). His method was/is to write down his goals. Ask himself whether they are achievable and then plan a way to get there. I am sure any number of life coaches have similar methods. Meaning, I am unconvinced Arnold has contributed anything more to humanity than an interesting spectacle of self indulgence.

Klem:

Once again, you are focusing on Arnold the individual and not his message.

Focus on goals setting, drive, vision, focus, and I am sure someone on this forum may learn how to attain something they otherwise may have thought unlikely if not impossible.

Not sure what this 'Life Coaching' stuff has to do with this. What LRRP52 wrote about is called Performance or Sport Psychology. A science that actually has been proven to work.

LR55

[Klem]

Yes I am focusing on Arnold the individual because as I said , a persons goals are intrinsically related to their motivations. I also focus on the person because Swarzenegger's positive achievements were valorized in the first post. Given all his exploits both good and bad it behooves someone to act as the Devil's Advocate.

The 'life coaching' aspect of what I am referring to and what is referred to in his autobiography is obvious. 52' is the one that wants to apply aspects Swarzeneggers mindset to marksmanship. I do not have an issue with that. I take issue with the person he is.

As far as this thread is concerned we need to identify and distil what aspects of this man is beneficial to marksmanship training. Because there is a lot that I see about this man that has not only nothing to do with marksmanship but is questionable behaviour.

[LR1955]

Yes I am focusing on Arnold the individual because as I said , a persons goals are intrinsically related to their motivations. I also focus on the person because Swarzenegger's positive achievements were valorized in the first post. Given all his exploits both good and bad it behooves someone to act as the Devil's Advocate.

The 'life coaching' aspect of what I am referring to and what is referred to in his autobiography is obvious. 52' is the one that wants to apply aspects Swarzeneggers mindset to marksmanship. I do not have an issue with that. I take issue with the person he is.

As far as this thread is concerned we need to identify and distil what aspects of this man is beneficial to marksmanship training. Because there is a lot that I see about this man that has not only nothing to do with marksmanship but is questionable behaviour.

Klem:

We do not have to focus on Arnold in this thread because it isn't about Arnold.

We do not have to "identify and distil what aspects of this man is beneficial to marksmanship training" because this thread isn't about Arnold.

We can identify what techniques he used to become a success with marksmanship. Goals setting, attentional focus, imagery, self talk -- are all some of them.

You think Arnold is a scum bag. I don't care but this isn't a forum about Arnold.

You aren't as good as Stan in trying to shift an argument so don't even try. Either say on the topic or do not post to this thread.

LR55

[Klem]

The thread is not about Arnold?...Then who does 52' refer to in the first post of his thread?

The thread is not about Arnold yet in your third line you say 'he' (a different person perhaps?) used certain 'techniques to become a success with marksmanship'. I am unsure the person you are referring to because the rest of us, including the person who started the thread are discussing Arnold Alois Swarzenegger of Thal, Austria. "Goal setting, attentional focus..." Who is this person you are talking about then? You want me to stay on topic yet it you that is straying from the topic in an effort to save the good intentions and reputation of the poster who started this thread.

What started as a call to marvel at Arnold Swarzenegger's amazing life story took a turn when I failed to dutifully follow 52's lead in admiring the guy. 52 focussed on his positives and I pointed out his failings while comparing his values to others who I do admire. In doing so I also question his relevance at marksmanship training given this is the training part of the forum and presumably why he is being showcased.

Now, to 'stay on topic' I must not mention this person anymore but talk about his life skills advice in isolation and how that is useful for marksmanship, yes?

Well then, without talking about the person who engineered the coaching skills I think these life skills are questionably relevant to shooting. They are too generic to be anything more than mildly interesting...What would make them interesting is talking about the person they come from...But that is verboten it seems.

Sorry 55', if staying on the topic implies being a sycophant to the opinions of moderators then in that department I have as much drive as Arnie. 52' wanted us to admire the guy and I tempered his expectation with circumspection. Two different opinions from two guys who still respect each other...Can you not live with that?

[LR1955]

Klem:

I wrote this, posted it and am editing it because I think this thread can be of value.

The mental skills Arnold used to become a successful bodybuilder, actor, politician are the same ones used by successful marksmen. Same ones used by anyone who deliberately planned and achieved success. Doesn't matter the goal. However, they are probably more oriented towards sports or other skills requiring physical ability.

LRRP52's post was about how Arnold became a success. You then interjected your opinion that Arnold is basically a scumbag.

Roger -- got it.

So let me ask these questions. No, I don't know where they are leading but hopefully to a more focused discussion about mental skills training.

Does Arnold's ethical transgressions tarnish or void the basic mental skills that LRRP52 outlined in his original post as they can apply to marksmanship performance?

If they do tarnish or void the basic mental skills Arnold used to succeed, why so?

If they do not tarnish or void the basic mental skills, why is Arnold's ethical behavior brought up?

LR55

[Klem]

55,

Thank you for replying.

In answer to your question I believe I made myself clear in earlier posts. If someone wants to valorize Arnold as a role model then be prepared for others who will disagree. I outlined Arnold's failings and my criteria for a role model. It may a different opinion to others and if anyone takes umbrage at that then it is not my intention to upset people, merely having a discussion.

In clarification to your posts concerning me. We both know I did not say Arnold was a 'scumbag'; a personal insult. I believe you are using the term to imply my position lacks credibility. I do however believe he is a narcissist who has focussed his 'can do' attitude on achieving self-indulgent goals. Also, that many of his achievements have come at the expense of others.

I forgive you for the slight where you made reference to Stan. It does not dignify a response.

Yes, I believe that a persons exploits tarnish any mental skills they lay claim to. As I said, unless we can completely separate any proprietary ownership of these mental skills from the person then it is difficult not to consider the person along with the skills.

I was not aware Arnold possessed any particular skillset other than the generic few steps I read some years ago in his biography and listed in an earlier post. I think we all know that Arnold is not a Marksman. I am also unaware that shooters use his skillset, or a skillset that Arnold also happens to use. I believe those steps he uses to achieve his goals have limited merit for shooters. What I do think would benefit shooters is possessing his drive, albeit focussed on achieving shooting outcomes.

Please note, I had the courtesy to answer your question and now invite you to do the same (previous post). Can you live with a poster having a different opinion to a moderator?

[montana]

Not getting into the discussion about Arnie ," Ive learned my lesson LOL. Here is a video of one of my friends who started out as a newbie and has become an incredible shooter. He eats, sleeps, and lives shooting. He is one of the most focused individuals I know. He puts more effort into his shooting than any shooter I have met and I know a lot of shooters. He was not a natural by any stretch of the imagination, but through HARD WORK," let me repeat" HARD WORK, focus, and dedication has become an incredible shooter. If a person wishes to succeed at something it is beneficial to learn from people who have achieved greatness. They usually have found the right path to achieve that success.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U64EWZ8...ure=relmfu

[LR1955]

55,

Thank you for replying.

In answer to your question I believe I made myself clear in earlier posts. If someone wants to valorize Arnold as a role model then be prepared for others who will disagree. I outlined Arnold's failings and my criteria for a role model. It may a different opinion to others and if anyone takes umbrage at that then it is not my intention to upset people, merely having a discussion.

In clarification to your posts concerning me. We both know I did not say Arnold was a 'scumbag'; a personal insult. I believe you are using the term to imply my position lacks credibility. I do however believe he is a narcissist who has focussed his 'can do' attitude on achieving self-indulgent goals. Also, that many of his achievements have come at the expense of others.

I forgive you for the slight where you made reference to Stan. It does not dignify a response.

Yes, I believe that a persons exploits tarnish any mental skills they lay claim to. As I said, unless we can completely separate any proprietary ownership of these mental skills from the person then it is difficult not to consider the person along with the skills.

I was not aware Arnold possessed any particular skillset other than the generic few steps I read some years ago in his biography and listed in an earlier post. I think we all know that Arnold is not a Marksman. I am also unaware that shooters use his skillset, or a skillset that Arnold also happens to use. I believe those steps he uses to achieve his goals have limited merit for shooters. What I do think would benefit shooters is possessing his drive, albeit focussed on achieving shooting outcomes.

Please note, I had the courtesy to answer your question and now invite you to do the same (previous post). Can you live with a poster having a different opinion to a moderator?

Klem:

Of course I can live with a poster disagreeing with me. As long as the poster doesn't start attacking me personally -- which is also the norm when I have to intervene in a thread. Have seen it happen to Bill and LRRP52 as well.

As for the skill sets that LRRP52 commented on. Goals setting, imagery, self talk are the three that are probably most used by athletes in any sport. All three work quite well with marksmanship. What LRRP52 didn't mention and maybe Arnold didn't use is relaxation and centering techniques -- stress management skills. Those are pretty important for anyone competing in a sport and I have found them particularly important with sports that require fine motor skills or very fast movement.

LR55