Howa Mini Action vs Sako L461

[am4966]

Just looking around for a Sako action, I know one can dream and I found this. Thought it was interesting for the Horde considering we are awaiting the introduction of the Howa Mini in the Grendel or 762x39

I accept that people will have a different opinion to mine, please consider the logic I used to arrive at my opinion before you dismiss it out of hand, ...

On the subject of the 'value' of a Sako 461. For many years there have been only three mini action rifles for sale, and whilst they are popular in their own right, sometimes they are used as the base for a custom rifle. The Sako, the CZ and the Zastava.
In 1997 Sako launched the 75 series at a price well beyond what most folks are willing to pay. The three lug bolt was a major change in design that leaves many cold, but the rifles are well finished and of quality design. Not as sought after as the AI that preceded them, or the L461 that preceded the AI.
The CZ 527 is the natural progression of the old BRNO Fox series rifles and is a well finished product, but the design could be improved through a better bolt handle and integral magazine instead of the unattractive detachable magazine.
The Mark X Mini Mauser (now Zastava m85) has declined in quality and current production actions are visually appealing but quality of fit and finish demonstrate their cheap price. Many feel that they also need a bolt handle extension.

The Sako L461/AI actions are in demand for three reasons.
The relative lack of suitable actions in the mini size - the three actions described above all have their problems.
The relative quality of the original manufacture. Built back in a time when the rifles were really finished by hand this quality continues to show especially when compared with the CZ and Zastava.
The nostalgia effect. Where guys who started shooting in a 1960's/70's remember longing for a Sako 222 or similar because that was THE RIFLE to own for spotlighting. Some of these blokes continued shooting, but many gave it away for whatever reason and are now returning to the sport. This nostalgic notion drives demand because they are not making any new ones (not for nearly 20 years actually).

So, where does this leave the Howa Mini?
It is built to a quality standard equal or superior to the L461 as it is built on CNC equipment to tolerances Sako could not achieve.
It has none of the inherent flaws of the CZ 527 or the Zastava m85, and is of a higher quality.
It is a new design that is supported by a major manufacturer with spare parts and accessory parts coming on line (not going off line).
It is every bit the L461 of today and will quickly displace the L461 as the action of choice for custom rifles. Already you can buy an entire Howa mini barrelled action for less than a >30yo L461 with a shot out barrel.

Neither the Howa Mini nor the Sako L461 are offered in left handed configuration. The difference is that the Howa MIGHT be built in left configuration, the L461 NEVER will be as they stopped production of the L461 in 1979, the AI in 1997. Left handed shooters are 15% of the market straight away.

An 'investment' is only worth what you will sell it for. This is a two dimensional problem.
First you must sell the investment, without being sold it only has a potential (not real) value.
Secondly, you can only sell it for what a buyer is willing to pay. You have had made some really nice rifles, but are you really going to get your money back on your 'investment'?
And remember, if you sell them you don't have them any more, so if you want to keep shooting you must buy something else. Not really much return on 'investment' financially, but if you keep them you get a non-financial return on your investment every time you handle them. That might not be worth $$ but it is worth something to a human (except maybe an accountant?).

In fact, if you wanted to optimise the financial value of your 'investment' in real $$$ it would be best to sell during the next three years as the first reason for L461 demand is about to disappear hand in hand with the second reason. Less demand means less $$ realised when you sell an 'investment'.

So this was a rather long winded reply to my my off handed yeah/Nah comment on the Howa Mini action.

[adamjp]

I wrote the original assessment and stand by it. It seems that a moderator on the original forum felt the need to post it elsewhere whilst chastising me for stirring trouble on the original forum. Nice.

The Sako L461 is a benchmark, but it is an old benchmark.

[adamjp]

Oh and I have good information that the 7.62x39 Howa Mini is coming, allegedly around Christmas.

[am4966]

I thought it was a great write up and well thought out. I really want a bolt action and the Sako looks to be around 1500.00 if you find one forsale that's a repeater.

[adamjp]

There is plenty right about the L461, that is why it remains a benchmark.

They are probably a little more available here in Australia than the USA, but even actions with rusted out barrels command a premium. Obviously Coopers, NULA Model 20 and the old Kimber of Oregon (not the current Kimber of NY) models are expensive and pretty thin on the ground and don't really rate a mention.

The Howa Mini is a good thing, could be better, but if I was building another custom I would choose the Howa Mini over the Zastava and the Sako.

FWIW I was howled down on the original forum. It seems my opinion on the Sako struck a raw nerve.

[Roe]

If you want the Sako for a Grendel, make sure it's a 6PPC action. Several builders have had trouble with feeding on 222 action conversions.

[am4966]

Thanks Roe for the tip, I was strictly looking around for the 6ppc. I don't think when the time is right that I'll be able to find a Sako here in the states that doesn't cost 1500.00, then you count the barrel stock and Smith work. It'll be very expensive. So time will tell

[adamjp]

If you want the Sako for a Grendel, make sure it's a 6PPC action. Several builders have had trouble with feeding on 222 action conversions.

Yep, the action rails must be widened, and then there is the magazine box/follower to sort out.

The PPC repeater variant of the Sako L461/AI are very limited in number due to the PPC inventors seeking to charge fees for chambering their cartridge. Both Sako and Ruger were burnt by this.

[ricsmall]

Am4966

If you're not dead set on a sako, a Remington SA chambered in .223 would be pretty doable. I've got one I'm gonna eventually convert over using PT&G bottom metal to use ar mags. I'm not too concerned about getting extra long coal, as the Grendel does pretty good at saami length. I don't think the difference will be beneficial enough to warrant a $1000 action. Also, the list of Remington stocks, accessories , bolts, scope mounts is almost infinite. I'm not going complete tacticool, but not traditional either.

Richard

[am4966]

I know the Sako is not feasible, I'm not gonna buy a action for 1500.00 and then Redue it. So Itll be a Howa mini, CZ or Remy 700. When the time comes I'll get the action and go from there.