What powder to copy the Hornady 123gr AMAX? What else would I need to do?

[Fried Chicken Blowout]

I would like to develop a load that would copy the off the shelf Hornady 123gr AMAX round so I can switch between my reloads and factory ammo if needed without jacking with my scope dope. I would assume I need a power to match the burn rate of what Hornady uses then match the FPS of the factory load? Anything else that needs to be done to try to match the two loads? I would assume that I could set my COL to about as long as I can fit in the mags and just make sure they chamber and I'd be okay?

Anyone know what powder I should be using to set this up?

[bwaites]

Hornady is using a powder and load specifically developed for the Grendel. It is believed to be along the lines of the Superperformance powder, but no one is actually willing to admit that it is the same powder recently released by Hodgdon as Superperformance. I intend on trying some, but it is shown to be fairly slow, closer to the 4831 line, used for Magnum and large cartridge loadings, than to the powders typically associated with the Grendel like BLC2, etc.

They tailored the burn rate, pressure curve, etc. specifically for the cartridge, supposedly.

Interestingly, the Leverlution powder is closer in burn rate to BLC2, but I haven't found either powder yet locally, so I don't know if they are ball or extruded, big or small, etc.

[rasp65]

Hodgdon has Leverevolution listed with its spherical powders.

[rg1]

The one round of my recently purchased and pulled 6.5 Grendel 123 A-Max had a flattened ball powder at about 29.8 grains. ONLY Hornady knows for sure which powder it is. Wasn't spherical or stick powder but again a flattened ball powder. I pulled one bullet just to see what type powder they used.

[GrantMan]

I think you might be on to something with the Leverevolution powder. I might have to experiment with that, if all fails I can use it with the 30-30

[bwaites]

It's an interesting option, I use TAC for reloading the 30-30, and it works well. Keeps me from having to buy another powder.

BUT....It will be interesting to see how much Leverlution powder you can get in a case!

[rasp65]

I was looking at the data for the 30-30 from the Hodgdon website. All of the top loads with LVR were compressed, no other powders top loads in their line up were shown compressed with bullets over 150 grs. I think it would be worth a try especially if you have a 30-30. It is rare that powder companies publish compressed load data for spherical powders. I would definately be interested in any more information about this powder.

[ctrmass]

I'm sure it's a canister powder/not available to the public.

[Fried Chicken Blowout]

So if we're not able to figure out what powder they are using, can you guys answer these questions?

1. Do I need to use a match grade primer or is a standard primers okay. I normally reload .223 in very high volume and use #41 primers from CCI. But also have on hand a good number of #40 from CCI. I assume this is not the ideal primer to use?

2. What powder would you suggest for highest accuracy? I'm going to branch out into long distance practical shooting matches and I'm looking at ranges of 250 to 875 yards.

3. Any other suggestions to maximize accuracy in this cartridge would be appreciated.

Thanks

[elfego baca]

I have tried two powders in my Grendel. The first was AA2230. Accuracy was ok but velocity was mediocre. I switched to AA2520 and get nearly 2500 ft/sec with 123 grain bullets either Sierra's HPBT or Hornady's A max out of a 24" barrel.

[RangerRick]

Here is some chrono data for Accurate 2520/Hornady 123 AMax vs Alexander Arms/123 Lapua factory loads.

Note I was using only 30 grains of 2520, the max is 30.5. I have since shot 30.5 with AMax 123's with good accuracy and no pressure signs. I haven't chrono'd them yet, but there was distinctly more recoil. I also have some Hornady factory 123 loads I need to chrono for comparison. I post that data as soon as I can get to the range to collect it. I also plan to chrono at 100 yards to see the velocity drop at that range. I'm trying to tighten up my reloading practices to get my standard deviation down as much as possible.

Note this is a 20 inch barrel. Most of the published data you see is for 24 inch bbl.

Brass: Hornady 6.5 Grendel (new)
Bullet: Hornady 123 Amax
Powder: 30 grains, Accurate Arms 2520
Primers: CCI 450, Small Rifle

Muzzle velocities in feet per second:

All Shots Included 2478 (shot #14) Removed
1: 2539 2539
2: 2534 2534
3: 2520 2520
4: 2549 2549
5: 2539 2539
6: 2506 2506
7: 2530 2530
8: 2534 2534
9: 2525 2525
10: 2554 2554
11: 2539 2539
12: 2525 2525
13: 2520 2520
14: 2478 2515
15: 2515 2549
16: 2549 2525
17: 2525 2530
18: 2530 2549
19: 2549 2534
20: 2534 2549
21: 2549 2534
22: 2534 2539
23: 2539 2534
24: 2534 2530
25: 2530

Hi: 2554 2554
Lo: 2478 2506
Ave: 2531 2533
Extreme Spread: 76 48

Std. Dev: 16 12

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alexander Arms 123 grain Factory Load

Brass: Lapua 6.5 Grendel (AA head stamp)
Bullet: 123 grain Lapua Scenar
Powder: 30.8 grains, AA Factory Load Powder
Primers: ?, suspect CCI 450, Small Rifle

Muzzle velocities in feet per second:

All Shots Included 2515 (shot #11) Removed
1: 2487 2487
2: 2487 2487
3: 2473 2473
4: 2469 2469
5: 2496 2496
6: 2492 2492
7: 2478 2478
8: 2460 2460
9: 2496 2496
10: 2487 2487
11: 2515 2473
12: 2473 2482
13: 2482 2501
14: 2501 2473
15: 2473 2478
16: 2478 2482
17: 2482 2487
18: 2487 2501
19: 2501 2501
20: 2501

Hi: 2515 2501
Lo: 2460 2460
Ave: 2485 2484
Extreme Spread: 55 41

Std. Dev: 13 12

[Fried Chicken Blowout]

Excellent post. Thanks so much. I'll look forward to hearing what you achieve with the hotter load. It sounds like you would suggest the Accurate 2520? What kind of accuracy are you getting at 100 yards out of your reloads vs the AA Lapula?

[bwaites]

Be careful with max/near max of 2520 as it tends to be temp sensitive. It's a great choice for moderate and cool temps, though, probably my favorite.

Remember, gas guns do not show the typical pressure signs that bolt guns do as you approach dangerous levels.

[RangerRick]

Excellent post. Thanks so much. I'll look forward to hearing what you achieve with the hotter load. It sounds like you would suggest the Accurate 2520? What kind of accuracy are you getting at 100 yards out of your reloads vs the AA Lapula?

The AMax 123, Lapua 123, Seirra match King 120, and Nosler Ballistic Tips 120 and 100 grain give me comparable accuracy. That's another task I need to do: Take some measurements with all three and get hard data on that.

Several people on this forum have suggested that the Grendel is more accurate at higher velocities, but I have been able to collect on data on that yet either.

I fired some Hornady factory loads at 200 yards a few weeks ago. The wind was gusting and very high so I fired 5 at the 200 yard target just for laughs. I was shooting during lulls in the wind. I was not very surprised to see some horizontal stringing due to the wind, but the group was only a little over an inch and vertically all of the holes were less than a bullet hole apart. Of course with just 5 shots, that could have been a fluke.

I fired 10 shots of hand loads last week at 100 yards with 30.5 grains of 2520 and Hornady 123 AMaxes. It was a lot less windy and I had a big ragged hole and a few flyers. That's not very scientific, so I need to test that again, firing only 5 shots per target so it doesn't tear out a big hole and taking some measurements and pictures.

Rick