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A fellow forum member, who is a long-time friend of mine from the Finland, sent me this:
![[Image: 2014-12-31182640_zpsa9b5c185.jpg]](http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/2014-12-31182640_zpsa9b5c185.jpg)
Sent chills up my back when I opened the box, because I was pretty sure I knew what it was right off the bat.
Anybody think they can guess the back story on it....
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I'm stumped, my Finnish is a bit rusty......
It appears to be something fired from a Nagant though.
"Bugout bag?..What's that? Is that all the junk you sidewalk commandos plan on humping when the SHTF? I'll grab a Nylon 66, a box of 22s and a poncho liner and in less than a week I will have all of your stuff and everything else that I need for the duration."
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I'm guessing it is a 7.62X53 cartridge case from the famed Finnish sniper of the Russian Finish winter war of 1939-40, Simo Hayha.
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montana Wrote:I'm guessing it is a 7.62X53 cartridge case from the famed Finnish sniper of the Russian Finish winter war of 1939-40, Simo Hayha.
So several of the active Finnish snipers went and interviewed Häyhä right before he died in the early 2000's, basically picking his brain for all the information they could gather from his experiences. As they conversed, he suggested, "Why don't I take you to the areas and show you...."
So they drive out to the historical front, in the area of operations he had fought in, and he took them to some of the positions he had occupied when he was set up in his Sniper Operations Sector. As he pointed out over his fields of fire from the exact locations, these guys start looking around on the ground, and found several of his spent cases. Keep in mind that Häyhä was empowered by his Company Commander to go operate alone, so during that 105-day period in the winter, not a lot of other people would really have ended up in these specific places. It's a heavily forested region, frozen much of the year.
They took the cases, and made these plaques with them, with an authenticity card on the back. For those that don't know, I'm half Finnish, and have been traveling there since 1979. I have competed in, and supported their sniper competitions since 2007, and have found many lifelong friends there that are really good dudes. This was an unexpected, but very memorable gift to receive, considering the history behind it.
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Great friends you have made, that is a piece of history that should always be cherished and held on to . My childhood friend is Finnish and they make the Ruana knives. He was the first person to tell me about Simo Hayha and his accomplishments. I have to admit I'm a little envious but I am glad it is with someone who appreciates the value and historic significance of what you were gifted. That is a great Christmas present.
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Very very special and cool.
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montana Wrote:Great friends you have made, that is a piece of history that should always be cherished and held on to . My childhood friend is Finnish and they make the Ruana knives. He was the first person to tell me about Simo Hayha and his accomplishments. I have to admit I'm a little envious but I am glad it is with someone who appreciates the value and historic significance of what you were gifted. That is a great Christmas present.
When my sniper partner and I shot FinnSniper in 2010, they gave us knives as awards. When I showed my mom, I discovered they were made in the factory my great grandma used to work in, making the leather sheathes for them. That blew me away too.
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LRRPF52 Wrote:When my sniper partner and I shot FinnSniper in 2010, they gave us knives as awards. When I showed my mom, I discovered they were made in the factory my great grandma used to work in, making the leather sheathes for them. That blew me away too.
The Ruana knives leather sheathes are second to none, and a work of art in their own right. Finnish knives and sheathes are unique and have a style I have always appreciated. Beautiful yet very functional. Your knife award had two values, perfect!
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There is much to be said for heroically fighting against evil, especially against great odds, but once a man's life, even an enemy's life, is ended he can no longer repent evil wrought and is consigned to his eternal fate, an eternal fate earned of one's own free will. When it is our time and the time of our enemies may God have mercy on us all.
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Nukes Wrote:There is much to be said for heroically fighting against evil... "It's the same old story. The good guys against the bad guys. Question is, who are the good guys?" ~ Burt Lancaster, in The Professionals
Nukes Wrote:...but once a man's life, even an enemy's life, is ended he can no longer repent evil wrought and is consigned to his eternal fate, an eternal fate earned of one's own free will. When it is our time and the time of our enemies may God have mercy on us all. From forum rules:
Quote:...posts on off-topic, controversial subjects such as Religion...are forbidden...
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...ll=1#post3
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The Winter War has a lot of lessons on the strategic level of how METT-TC (or whatever they are calling that this week) can be exploited to make what should on paper be a complete mismatch into a bloody stalemate in which in this case the Soviets barely gained enough ground to bury their dead. When there was a thread this last year about the Carl Gustav 84mm being a better and more popular option lately than the AT4 it made me think of Carl Gustav Mannheim, and that chapter of military history, but I didn't mention it because it was a little too obscure for many.
What Simo Hayha and his spotter/partner did on the tactical level was to define "sisu" and what is possible for only a couple of finely honed and determined men to do.
It would be a fantastically valuable thing to me and obviously to you to be reminded of those people every time you walk through your house and glance at an artifact on the wall. I am glad you have it as I know you would enjoy it as much as I would. : )
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LRRPF52 Wrote:So several of the active Finnish snipers went and interviewed Häyhä right before he died in the early 2000's, basically picking his brain for all the information they could gather from his experiences. As they conversed, he suggested, "Why don't I take you to the areas and show you...."
So they drive out to the historical front, in the area of operations he had fought in, and he took them to some of the positions he had occupied when he was set up in his Sniper Operations Sector. As he pointed out over his fields of fire from the exact locations, these guys start looking around on the ground, and found several of his spent cases. Keep in mind that Häyhä was empowered by his Company Commander to go operate alone, so during that 105-day period in the winter, not a lot of other people would really have ended up in these specific places. It's a heavily forested region, frozen much of the year.
They took the cases, and made these plaques with them, with an authenticity card on the back. For those that don't know, I'm half Finnish, and have been traveling there since 1979. I have competed in, and supported their sniper competitions since 2007, and have found many lifelong friends there that are really good dudes. This was an unexpected, but very memorable gift to receive, considering the history behind it.
That's quite a treasure there. I'm certain it will be hung prominently, where it can be shared and admired by you and your friends. It has already proven to be quite the conversation starter.
Merry Christmas!
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Great story.
Thanks for sharing!
BTW How is that round as a sniping round?
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That would be one of the best gifts ever! Very cool.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Very cool piece of history. BANG BANG!!
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lrgrendel Wrote:BTW How is that round as a sniping round?
Today 7,62x53R is been used by Finnish army as sniper round in 2 platforms: TKiv m-85 (mosin based sniper rifle platform) and dragunov (7.62 TKiv Dragunov).
In TKiv m-85 ammo is with 13g D166 bullet. Vo=720m/s@15deg. It is about 0,5MOA or better. I'd say effective range is about 600-700m for head size stationary target. It will definetly turn ones day on bad side with relative ease. And keeping in mind that receiver and bolt is from mosins which could be dated as old as early 1900's.
On Dragunov finns are using same caliber russian origin MG round. Not as accurate but with Dragunov platform it's deadly in close quarters and in wooded areas. If I get to choose what to carry into firefight in finland dragunov would be my choise any day.
Small anecdote on Hayha. When he was interviewed he was asked how many rounds he used per kill. After 5sec thinking he responded "we were poor and couldn't wasted anything. So I didn't waste more than one round per customer. "
With all due respect to his achievements bodycount was mounted mainly due russians poor tactics.
Still about company Hayha served. It was commanded by Capt Juutilainen. He was first kicked out of finnish military academy due alcohol abuse. He then joined french foreign legion and coming back for winter war. Capt Juutilainen had brother Ilmari Juutilainen. Ilmari was awarded twice !! with Mannerheim cross (equivalent to MoH). For further reading about Hayha and his battle grounds google "Kollaa river winter war".
If you join winter sniper course in Feb I'll let you try similar rifle Hayha was using. Still quite nice rifle system. Simple as me. 
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O MKo Wrote:Today 7,62x53R is been used by Finnish army as sniper round in 2 platforms: TKiv m-85 (mosin based sniper rifle platform) and dragunov (7.62 TKiv Dragunov).
In TKiv m-85 ammo is with 13g D166 bullet. Vo=720m/s@15deg. It is about 0,5MOA or better. I'd say effective range is about 600-700m for head size stationary target. It will definetly turn ones day on bad side with relative ease. And keeping in mind that receiver and bolt is from mosins which could be dated as old as early 1900's.
On Dragunov finns are using same caliber russian origin MG round. Not as accurate but with Dragunov platform it's deadly in close quarters and in wooded areas. If I get to choose what to carry into firefight in finland dragunov would be my choise any day.
Small anecdote on Hayha. When he was interviewed he was asked how many rounds he used per kill. After 5sec thinking he responded "we were poor and couldn't wasted anything. So I didn't waste more than one round per customer. "
With all due respect to his achievements bodycount was mounted mainly due russians poor tactics.
Still about company Hayha served. It was commanded by Capt Juutilainen. He was first kicked out of finnish military academy due alcohol abuse. He then joined french foreign legion and coming back for winter war. Capt Juutilainen had brother Ilmari Juutilainen. Ilmari was awarded twice !! with Mannerheim cross (equivalent to MoH). For further reading about Hayha and his battle grounds google "Kollaa river winter war".
If you join winter sniper course in Feb I'll let you try similar rifle Hayha was using. Still quite nice rifle system. Simple as me.
MKo,
Great post and an incredible gift. Lrrpf52 and I have had lots of long conversation about the Winter War and Hayha, so I have a pretty good idea about what it means to him! Wish I could make your course, but surgery will keep me out of shooting for a while. I'm hoping you come to Boomershoot and bring similar stuff!
I think I'd like to sponsor a couple evening discussions there on historical long range shooting and snipers.
You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live. - John Galt
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MKo Wrote:Today 7,62x53R is been used by Finnish army as sniper round in 2 platforms: TKiv m-85 (mosin based sniper rifle platform) and dragunov (7.62 TKiv Dragunov).
In TKiv m-85 ammo is with 13g D166 bullet. Vo=720m/s@15deg. It is about 0,5MOA or better. I'd say effective range is about 600-700m for head size stationary target. It will definetly turn ones day on bad side with relative ease. And keeping in mind that receiver and bolt is from mosins which could be dated as old as early 1900's.
On Dragunov finns are using same caliber russian origin MG round. Not as accurate but with Dragunov platform it's deadly in close quarters and in wooded areas. If I get to choose what to carry into firefight in finland dragunov would be my choise any day.
Small anecdote on Hayha. When he was interviewed he was asked how many rounds he used per kill. After 5sec thinking he responded "we were poor and couldn't wasted anything. So I didn't waste more than one round per customer. "
With all due respect to his achievements bodycount was mounted mainly due russians poor tactics.
Still about company Hayha served. It was commanded by Capt Juutilainen. He was first kicked out of finnish military academy due alcohol abuse. He then joined french foreign legion and coming back for winter war. Capt Juutilainen had brother Ilmari Juutilainen. Ilmari was awarded twice !! with Mannerheim cross (equivalent to MoH). For further reading about Hayha and his battle grounds google "Kollaa river winter war".
If you join winter sniper course in Feb I'll let you try similar rifle Hayha was using. Still quite nice rifle system. Simple as me.
Again very interesting. Thanks.
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