6.5 Grendel versus 6mm ARC for whitetail

[rickt300]

For my use as an AR hunting cartridge I give the Grendel an edge. I hunt with cup and core bullets and ranges are usually shorter than 150 yards. For my hunting I don't need the added wind bucking or flatter trajectory. This is not to say I am above shooting paper with the ARC or varmints.

[Fredman]

I got the 22 Nosler bug. Midway had a sale on Proof Research barrels, and I had to have one. Even though I had several 223 and 556s. “300FPS” faster…
After quite a bit of playing around with it, trying 55g, 69 SMK, 75&77g, and 85 g bullets, factory and reloads, I found to gain that extra speed, I sacrificed accuracy. I eventually decided it wasn’t worth having two calibers so close to the same performance.

I checked out the Hodgdon reloading website and compared a couple of bullets. Sierra makes a 107 match king in 6&6.5mm. Velocity is almost identical, with the slightest win to the Grendel. Then I checked a 120 grain Grendel against a 103 Arc. Just over 200FPS faster on the ARC, but with a 17 grain lighter bullet. Both using a 24” barrel.

I don’t have an interest in the ARC, solely for the reason there were several variations out there already, and some out preform the ARC supposedly, like the 6mmAR, which I always wanted.
For me, ethical deer range I wouldn’t shoot past 300 yards unless conditions were perfect. My question is does the ARC really out preform the Grendel from 400-800 yards? I would assume the heavier bullet would maintain velocity better even with a slightly lower BC.

I’ve shot 14 bucks in the last 15 years. For Vermont that is amazing. All with the Grendel. All within 180 yards. I shot a 7 point pie bald that was directly facing me. Sorry, got too excited and didn’t wait for a better shot. Dropped in its tracks. The farthest I’ve had one run was 50 yards. I’m not really happy with the accuracy of the 120SSTs, but they perform very well.

[Fredman]

Here is a photo of my Pie Bald and another of a blood trail.

[riuma]

I have hammered every mule deer I've pointed my CZ Grendel at. ~Riuma

[Remington Jim]

I have hammered every mule deer I've pointed my CZ Grendel at. ~Riuma

Right on ~ with using what Bullet ?

[SDguy]

I have hammered every mule deer I've pointed my CZ Grendel at. ~Riuma

I used the Hammer bullet for the 1st time last year. The 6mm 87 grain Absolute hammer was my choice. So I have only took two deer so far with this bullet. As things worked out each deer was shot at roughly 100 yards. Liked the terminal effect so much I may have a hard time giving the 6,5 offerings a try in the Grendel.

IMHO we are splitting hairs when attempting to give one of these more terminal credibility over the other on Deer sized game. Either the 6mm ARC or the 6.5 Grendel can Hammer just fine, dare I say amazingly effective.

[JASmith]

I used the Hammer bullet for the 1st time last year. The 6mm 87 grain Absolute hammer was my choice. So I have only took two deer so far with this bullet. As things worked out each deer was shot at roughly 100 yards. Liked the terminal effect so much I may have a hard time giving the 6,5 offerings a try in the Grendel.

IMHO we are splitting hairs when attempting to give one of these more terminal credibility over the other on Deer sized game. Either the 6mm ARC or the 6.5 Grendel can Hammer just fine, dare I say amazingly effective.

The 87 gr lead free expanding bullets are fine for all deer. Going with 87 gr cup and core bullets on larger deer may not result on the same success rate.

[SDguy]

The 87 gr lead free expanding bullets are fine for all deer. Going with 87 gr cup and core bullets on larger deer may not result on the same success rate.

Agreed!

[rickt300]

Maybe I should run for president lmao.

Personally I think you would be magnificent compared to the current WH resident.

[SDguy]

Personally I think you would be magnificent compared to the current WH resident.

Given where the bar has been set, I fear he may be over-qualified for the job. Would not personally mind if we chose to raise the bar. Seems we have a lot of east & left coast voters who do not approve of raising the bar

[Zeneffect]

Given where the bar has been set, I fear he may be over-qualified for the job. Would not personally mind if we chose to raise the bar. Seems we have a lot of east & left coast voters who do not approve of raising the bar

I've been banned from next-door for raising the bar of speculation and feelings to actually providing facts and evidence. You are quite correct in they prefer to live in a echo chamber of perpetual stupidity.

[LRRPF52]

I got the 22 Nosler bug. Midway had a sale on Proof Research barrels, and I had to have one. Even though I had several 223 and 556s. “300FPS” faster…
After quite a bit of playing around with it, trying 55g, 69 SMK, 75&77g, and 85 g bullets, factory and reloads, I found to gain that extra speed, I sacrificed accuracy. I eventually decided it wasn’t worth having two calibers so close to the same performance.

I checked out the Hodgdon reloading website and compared a couple of bullets. Sierra makes a 107 match king in 6&6.5mm. Velocity is almost identical, with the slightest win to the Grendel. Then I checked a 120 grain Grendel against a 103 Arc. Just over 200FPS faster on the ARC, but with a 17 grain lighter bullet. Both using a 24” barrel.

I don’t have an interest in the ARC, solely for the reason there were several variations out there already, and some out preform the ARC supposedly, like the 6mmAR, which I always wanted.
For me, ethical deer range I wouldn’t shoot past 300 yards unless conditions were perfect. My question is does the ARC really out preform the Grendel from 400-800 yards? I would assume the heavier bullet would maintain velocity better even with a slightly lower BC.

I’ve shot 14 bucks in the last 15 years. For Vermont that is amazing. All with the Grendel. All within 180 yards. I shot a 7 point pie bald that was directly facing me. Sorry, got too excited and didn’t wait for a better shot. Dropped in its tracks. The farthest I’ve had one run was 50 yards. I’m not really happy with the accuracy of the 120SSTs, but they perform very well.

One thing I’ve noticed is that 120gr and higher class bullets from 6.5 Grendel hit the steel harder, or at least louder. There’s more momentum.

The “smack" sound on animals will be different as well, favoring the larger diameter projectiles.

I have always had a plan to get a 6mm AR barrel and built a coyote/target rifle, but after shooting a lot of that 110gr PPU 6.5 Grendel recently, I kind of lost interest.

For me, I shoot steel a lot, so my perspective will not apply to everyone. I like to hear the impacts audibly, not try to guess or squint to see if I connected.

I’ve had the same problem when spotting for 6mm Dasher, .243 Win, 6 Creedmoor, etc. in PRS matches and LR events. They connect, but it’s hard for ROs to tell once you start pushing out to 650/700yds and farther.

[rickt300]

I got my 6Grendel to shoot coyotes with and burn up my supply of 6mm bullets. Really liking it. Still planning on using the 6.5 Grendel for deer/hog this fall where I can use a rifle. Have to say I like both rounds a lot.

[Stinky Coyote]

I got my 6Grendel to shoot coyotes with and burn up my supply of 6mm bullets. Really liking it. Still planning on using the 6.5 Grendel for deer/hog this fall where I can use a rifle. Have to say I like both rounds a lot.

well played, sounds perfect

[jackRyan]

I know this is an older post, but I am thinking about my birthday or Christmas wish. Listening Santa? A good 6.5 Grendel Bolt, or a 6mm ARC upper. I am not a frequent 1000 yard/meter shooter. but i do hunt. To be honest i am a 6.5 Grendel lover, BUT that being said, Hornady has the 6mm arc as compared to the 224 Valkyrie and the 6.5 Grendel. The 6mm ARC wins out in almost every catigory over the other two. Less drop and windage, and more foot pounds of energy, and more speed. Not a lot more than a Grendel, BUT if I were shooting long range, say over 600 yards, I would give the nod to the ARC. The thot for the moment is this one two part question. What will the 6 ARC become after as much time and development as the 6.5 Grendel, and will it ever be an intrest on a large enough scale to even begin doing so. Not much 6mm ARC shelf ammo. The 6.5 grendel has a decent amount of companies selling it. Hand loaders are lovin the 6.5 Grendel and seeing its limits easily surpass any shelf ammo for it. As for the 6mm ARC in a bolt, I would just go with a good old 243 Winchester with 50 grains of powder compared to 30 grains for the 6mm ARC, and 243 velocities ranging from 2900(90 grain boolit)-3900(50 grain boolit) feet per second vs 2300-2750 feet per second for the 6mm arc. Of course those velocities are with 20 inch barrels.The 243 is known as a white tail deer slayer when using a 90 grain boolit. Watched my bro inlaw drop more than a few bucks with a one shot knockdown, with not more than a short leap and face plant. Oh well, decisions, decisions decisions.of course those velocities are with 20 inch barrels.

[BluntForceTrauma]

If you go with a bolt, go with Howa's Micro-Action and have some FUN! Sounds like you're partial to the 6mm for this use, so I think Howa has a 6mm ARC. Deer-killing ability isn't the issue between the .243 Win and the 6mm ARC; one will do as well as the other. If you really want a long-range 6mm, go with 6mm Creedmoor rather than .243 Win.

[JASmith]

There are good arguments for the 6mm for competition and plinking.

For hunting, however, there is more to the story than just velocity, drift, and energy. The weight of well-designed hunting bullets is the primary correlation factor for how large an animal one can reliability take given good shot placement.

The Grendel can readily digest 140 gr-class bullets while the 6mm tops out at 115 gr (and those are target bullets). The result is that the Grendel can and does routinely harvest elk while the 6mm often has problems with the heaviest deer.

[LRRPF52]

I know this is an older post, but I am thinking about my birthday or Christmas wish. Listening Santa? A good 6.5 Grendel Bolt, or a 6mm ARC upper. I am not a frequent 1000 yard/meter shooter. but i do hunt. To be honest i am a 6.5 Grendel lover, BUT that being said, Hornady has the 6mm arc as compared to the 224 Valkyrie and the 6.5 Grendel. The 6mm ARC wins out in almost every catigory over the other two. Less drop and windage, and more foot pounds of energy, and more speed. Not a lot more than a Grendel, BUT if I were shooting long range, say over 600 yards, I would give the nod to the ARC. The thot for the moment is this one two part question. What will the 6 ARC become after as much time and development as the 6.5 Grendel, and will it ever be an intrest on a large enough scale to even begin doing so. Not much 6mm ARC shelf ammo. The 6.5 grendel has a decent amount of companies selling it. Hand loaders are lovin the 6.5 Grendel and seeing its limits easily surpass any shelf ammo for it. As for the 6mm ARC in a bolt, I would just go with a good old 243 Winchester with 50 grains of powder compared to 30 grains for the 6mm ARC, and 243 velocities ranging from 2900(90 grain boolit)-3900(50 grain boolit) feet per second vs 2300-2750 feet per second for the 6mm arc. Of course those velocities are with 20 inch barrels.The 243 is known as a white tail deer slayer when using a 90 grain boolit. Watched my bro inlaw drop more than a few bucks with a one shot knockdown, with not more than a short leap and face plant. Oh well, decisions, decisions decisions.of course those velocities are with 20 inch barrels.

If you had the same rifle set-up with both cartridges shooting the same bullet weight/construction, I don’t think you would be able to tell the difference on medium game within 300yds. For calling-in and shooting coyotes, they both work and are flat-shooters with 85-110gr weights from the same barrel lengths. BCs will favor the 6mm in those weights for sure, but mv will be higher with 6.5 Grendel. I just ran the numbers for two 20” guns.

20” 6.5 Grendel AR-15, 105gr Sierra Blitzking, 2775fps, .421 G1 BC, 6300ft ASL, 80 deg F, 100yd zero

300yds 2305 fps 1239 ft-lbs -10.6” drop 5.6” drift

20” 6mm ARC AR-15, 103gr ELD-X Precision Hunter, 2720fps, .512 G1 BC, 6300ft ASL, 80 deg F, 100yd zero

300yds 2257 fps 1165 ft-lbs -10.2” drop 5.7” drift

Hornady lists 2550fps as the max load with a 103gr ELD-X from an 18” AR-15. I bumped it up to 2720fps for a 20” barrel just to give the 6mm ARC the benefit as a bias filter. I just caught something odd though. Hornady must be inflating their BCs because I used their doppler program with the 103gr ELD-X profile in their library in the program. It matches the 105gr Sierra Blitzking velocity at 300yds even when I fire them both at 2720fps, same atmospheric conditions. The higher BC 103gr ELD-X should really be walking away from the .421 BC 105gr Blitzking out of the gate, but instead, they match at 300yds. That’s Hornady’s Doppler Radar data for that bullet, not a theoretical BC program. It could be a combination of over-stating the BC for the 103gr ELD-X, while Sierra’s might be under-valued and they’re meeting in the middle.

This is all academic at this point, so the hunter calling-in yotes isn’t going to be holding fractions of an inch of wind or 1” of trajectory at 300yds. Looks like there might be some marketing going on with published BCs again.

There isn’t a 6mm out there that I’ve shot or spotted for at distance that is very loud when they impact steel.

I just haven’t seen anything boilerroom-wise that will push a heavier 6mm bullet fast enough to make it hit the steel with much authority from 600yds and further. If you talk to a lot of ROs, they will say the same thing about registering hits at distance for the guys shooting 6mms.

On paper, you can show ft-lbs favoring a 6mm 105-108gr with the mid- 0.5xx region G1 BC, but once the projectile hits the steel, there isn’t enough mass to create the effects that are loud or make much of a visible impact. They’re very easy to connect with though, just not impressive when they connect.

With 6.5mm in the 90-110gr class of bullets, you hear the same thing, but the BCs are lower of course. Once you step up to 123gr, the impact effects are both audibly and visibly more noticeable, even from my 12” Grendel. 6.5mm just hits the steel harder in that weight class.

[rickt300]

Where I have been with the 6AR is running the 58 gr. Vmax pushed to around 3200 fps. For coyotes and smaller varmints this has an edge. 300 yards is plenty of range in my case. I also feel that up to 300 yards either will be fine. For hogs I like the Grendel better. I have that for the excuse to own both. I also feel mass counts more than BC other than shooting paper or steel way out there in the wind.

[Huckleberry75]

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I think I will call that good for 129ablr's at 100yds. Small squares are 1/4" grid. Time to center up and verify speed.