Optimal Hunting bullet for 18in Grendels.

[Bigfoot]

Better comparison. The 250 Savage and the 257 Roberts (low loading pressure at the time) were for many decades thought to be ideal deer calibers, 100 gr .257 bullets at 2800ish. Not much difference in diameter. But JASmith is correct, bullet construction and how it changes after impact makes all the difference.

100 gr TTSX, pass though from extreme angles, little meat damage, best at high shoulder shots. This will be my low recoil load.
100 gr Partition, extreme angles, bit more damage, works well behind the shoulder too.
100 Hornady, tough little bullet, shoulder or boiler room.
100 BT, bit soft, best broadside behind the shoulder.

100s will work fine depending on the size of deer in your area and your hunting style/distance.

If the 65G fellas here with lots of game experience say the 120s or the 123s drop em better because they give up some fragments on the way through or stretch the effective range I'd listen up.

Sure wish Nosler or Hornady would make a decent BC 90 gr E-Tip or GMX. I made a request to Nosler. Don't hold your breath tho..

[VASCAR2]

Not to pick on you VASCAR but how come the same people who say 100gr bullets arent enough for deer in 6.5G are the same people who would recommend a 100gr bullet in a 243? I really dont understand this, I also dont understand this with other calibers either I have hunted in the past with a 300 whisper with 120gr bullets and have clocked them at 1100fps out of 10.5" barrel and killed deer dead right there not a flinch. Then people who say its a good load (300) also say the 357 magnum moving at the same speed from a 6" barrel with a heavier bullet isn't a good load for deer. I just wonder. By the way, both kill deer equally well. I am interested in the lighter loads for Grendel, think they are very useful.

Again, VASCAR, please dont take offense, I am only using the situation as an example, I dont mean to pick a fight in any way, shape or form.

As others have said it is the construction of the bullets more so than the weight of the projectile. I have shot Watermelons, jugs of water and critters with the 100 grain Nosler BT and 100 grain Sierra Varmint. My concern is shooting a Large heavy boned white tail buck deer at close range with the 100 grain Nosler BT. The 100 grain Nosler BT at angled shot on bone may not penetrate deep enough to pass through limiting the blood trail and maybe loosing the deer.

I have seen deer move just as I shot changing where the bullet struck for how I was intending to hit the deer. I'd hate to loose a trophy because of poor bullet selection. With the Barnes TTSX or 100 grain partition I think the bullet construction is more suitable for deer than the 100 grain Nosler BT. If you could always be assured of your head shot or body shot being perfect I feel sure the 100 grain Nosler BT is lethal. Not always being able to predict all factors I would rather have a 100 grain Barnes TTSX if I had to defend myself from a wild very large mad feral hog than a 100 grain Nosler BT.

I think as a home defense round the 6.5 Grendel 100 grain Nosler BT has some very good qualities but not all self defense rounds make good hunting round or vise versa.

[XcountryRider]

I settled on 29.3gr of AA 2520 for my 18in. I'm getting a decent group and it functions well in my rifle. My 18 in is slightly under gassed and the 29.3gr cycles well. I'm getting 2580fps with that load.

[Whelenon]

I settled on 29.3gr of AA 2520 for my 18in. I'm getting a decent group and it functions well in my rifle. My 18 in is slightly under gassed and the 29.3gr cycles well. I'm getting 2580fps with that load.

I haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if this is redundant but what bullet did you decide to go with?

[cory]

I haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if this is redundant but what bullet did you decide to go with?

I believe he's referring to the 140gr Nosler Ballistic Tip.

[joker31]

Whitetail aren't really known for their bullet bashing bones, they tend to be more like bird bones (Very flexible) and less like Wild Boar(Like cement) I'm also looking for lightweight bullets as an alternative to the Barnes Wallet busters.

[XcountryRider]

I haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if this is redundant but what bullet did you decide to go with?

120gr barnes tsx.

[hm2 clark]

joker31. Think about bullets this way. They come in (1) cheap lead tipped bullets (2) premium NBT SST and the like. And (3) Super premium like the Barnes. Most any "Hunting Bullet" with a sectional density of >.250 will work fine. That means 6.5 "hunting" bullets that are 120gr -129gr are the sweet spot for hunting if they are accurate enough in your rifle. I keep like 4000 Remington 120gr psp in the closet because I got them cheap and I know they kill hogs and deer well. I like the hornady 129gr spire point a little better. I shoot some of the premium bullets also, but its overkill for me because I dont shoot past 250 yards. "Target bullets" in the same weight are not good for hunting. Hope that helps.

[JASmith]

Excellent summary HM2!

Also, as intimated, keep an eye open for bulk sales, especially for the 123gr SST. The normal MidwayUSA price is about 3 cents more than the same weight SP offering.

We are seeing that one of virtues of the Grendel's velocity is that the classic (read cheap) bullets function well enough to count for most of the game we should be interested in. Further, a few thousand of just ONE bullet encourages that to be the basis for an all-purpose load.

Beware the hunter who uses only one rifle and load - he will likely know how to use it and use it well...

[XcountryRider]

joker31. Think about bullets this way. They come in (1) cheap lead tipped bullets (2) premium NBT SST and the like. And (3) Super premium like the Barnes. Most any "Hunting Bullet" with a sectional density of >.250 will work fine. That means 6.5 "hunting" bullets that are 120gr -129gr are the sweet spot for hunting if they are accurate enough in your rifle. I keep like 4000 Remington 120gr psp in the closet because I got them cheap and I know they kill hogs and deer well. I like the hornady 129gr spire point a little better. I shoot some of the premium bullets also, but its overkill for me because I dont shoot past 250 yards. "Target bullets" in the same weight are not good for hunting. Hope that helps.

For an 18in velocity becomes and issue so that becomes a factor in bullet choice. I don't think a 129gr bullet is the best choice for a 18in barrel.

[JASmith]

For an 18in velocity becomes and issue so that becomes a factor in bullet choice. I don't think a 129gr bullet is the best choice for a 18in barrel.

It is too easy to debate the semantics between 'good' and 'best' in this context.

The 129 gr bullets like the SP & and SST are excellent choices since they will reliably expand at velocities somewhat below 1800 ft/sec which gives them plenty of range for the Grendel. Should the Nosler claims of 1400 ft/sec hold true, that bullet might prove to be in the category for 'best all around' even for the 18 in barrel.

If, on the other hand, one wants the longest possible point blank range, the the 100 gr TTSX, Partition, and other bullets of this weight class designed for medium game become better choices.

Again, the difference between, good, better, excellent, and best depends on the objectives.

[Flyby]

I've considered the 100 gr TTSX. I would like to hear some field reports after deer season. I'm loading 123 gr AMAX for paper and 123 gr SST for white tail this year. Just loaded 60 SSTs this weekend. I'm hunting in South Texas, but 250 yards is typically the longest shot due to brush.

[BjornF16]

Good observations!

Let's start with the 'why' -- Way too many of us, including yours truly, understand penetration mechanics of solid projectiles where sectional density and velocity are important factors in determining penetration depth. This understanding incorrectly tells us that the 100 gr .243 bullet should penetrate deeper than a 100 gr 6.5 mm bullet fired from the Grendel.

Some of us have a rudimentary understanding of the mechanics of eroding projectiles, where the sectional density of the remaining projectile helps determine the next increment of penetration. Very few have looked at the case where a projectile partly erodes in a soft media and then holds a rather consistent shape for the remainder of the event.

Expanding bullets fit this last description when they impact game animals at within their design velocity range. Think of it this way -- the bullet transforms from a sleek aerodynamic projectile into a ball-like object within a few inches of hitting the skin. After that, the sectional density and residual velocity of that object defines the remainder of the event. This phenomena invalidates our model that views the sectional density of the original bullet shape as the principal factor in penetration.

In short, it can be shown that a 100 gr .243, .264, .277, etc. bullet have roughly the same effectiveness on game provided they are built to similar standards. This last bit also confuses us in the shooting public because a 100 grain .243 bullet is treated and almost always designed as a medium game bullet. On the other hand, a 100 gr .30 caliber bullet is almost always designed as a varmint or plinking bullet. These two bullets behave quite differently on impact.

These thoughts are expanded along with discussions of the underlying test data in the paper "Ideal Bullet Weight."

You will also see that that the right choice of bullet weight and design can give the Grendel a lot of capability for almost all North American big game in addition to deer and hogs.

Awesome paper on "Ideal Bullet Weight"…Thanks!

I've been going through some hand wringing trying to pick the right bullet/bullet weight for elk this fall and you just helped with my decision making.

I've got a tag for "cow", and my son has a tag for either sex. I'm guessing "cow" elk are 500 lb class in CO with "bull" elk 600-700 lb. Here is my current game plan (feel free to advise):

Grendel AR - 120 TSX
Grendel Bolt - 125 Partition
7mm-08 - 140 class bonded/all copper
7mm Mag - 139 GMX (300 yd zero; very flat shooting)
.308 Win- 165 GMX

[JASmith]

Thanks for reading the article!

The "best" gun and load is the one you feel most comfortable shooting as long as the bullet is big enough.

Let us know how the hunt goes --

[Bigfoot]

I've considered the 100 gr TTSX. I would like to hear some field reports after deer season.

Deer Yotes http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...X-vs.-TTSX
Elk http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...d-success&
Hogs Deer http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...TTSX-loads
300Yds http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/520700_.html
Hog http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...ejon-Ranch
Exits everytime http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...hrono-data
Water jug test http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...X-AR-Comp&

I've been going through some hand wringing trying to pick the right bullet/bullet weight for elk this fall and you just helped with my decision making.

I've got a tag for "cow", and my son has a tag for either sex. I'm guessing "cow" elk are 500 lb class in CO with "bull" elk 600-700 lb. Here is my current game plan (feel free to advise):

The 120 TTSX is one of THE best 6.5 bullets for expansion and penetration, better than most 140s. At Grendel velocity the effective range will be limited so get within 250 yards. Haven't read anything about the new 120 gr GMX or E-tip.

In small capacity cartridges the mono bullets really show their penetration advantage but since they don't frag boiler room shot critters might run further than one shot with a BT or SST. Hit em in the shoulder though and they work great with little meat loss

[XcountryRider]

Deer Yotes http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...X-vs.-TTSX
Elk http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...d-success&
Hogs Deer http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...TTSX-loads
300Yds http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/520700_.html
Hog http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...ejon-Ranch
Exits everytime http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...hrono-data
Water jug test http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthrea...X-AR-Comp&



The 120 TTSX is one of THE best 6.5 bullets for expansion and penetration, better than most 140s. At Grendel velocity the effective range will be limited so get within 250 yards. Haven't read anything about the new 120 gr GMX or E-tip.

In small capacity cartridges the mono bullets really show their penetration advantage but since they don't frag boiler room shot critters might run further than one shot with a BT or SST. Hit em in the shoulder though and they work great with little meat loss

I should be good to 350 yards with my 2580fps MV for my 18in Grendel.

Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 2580 -0.5 0 0 1774 0
50 2453 0.47 0.8 0.06 1603 0.69
100 2335 0 3.04 0.12 1453 1.46
150 2221 -2.08 6.89 0.19 1314 2.77
200 2110 -5.92 12.5 0.26 1186 4.67
250 2001 -11.73 20.08 0.33 1067 7.2
300 1897 -19.71 29.83 0.41 959 10.4
350 1796 -30.12 42.01 0.49 860 14.34

[Bigfoot]

1 Monos work better the faster the impact.

2 A standard TTSX might open at 1800-1900, but not much. You'll get much better tissue disruption above 2200.

3 2580 fps with a bullet that long. Wow. Good job!

[XcountryRider]

1 Monos work better the faster the impact.

2 A standard TTSX might open at 1800-1900, but not much. You'll get much better tissue disruption above 2200.

3 2580 fps with a bullet that long. Wow. Good job!

My 24in barrel velocities for the 29.3gr of AA2520 were

2638fps
2641fps
2662fps
2682fps
2702fps

I only fired two in the 18in barrel and they were

2567fps
2590fps

[XcountryRider]

I got 100 of the 100gr Barnes TTSX in Stock. My 100gr Noslers did a great job on my small pig but left lead frags when it hit bone. I'de rather not have lead in the meat. I'll probably work up a load with 2520.

[rickOshay]

Stay above 2000 fps for the TTSX.