Bolt Group Buy - Possible?

[cory]

No need to get hasty with someone’s opinion here Cory….

If I came off short I apologize, I sent that message from a cell phone.

I will say this I'd never expect Bill to send us bolts he had intended to use for fulfilling current orders. I've always assumed if AA was able to help us out it'd be a special order from their supply source.

[cory]

Mark, thanks for the insight and good luck with the new brake!

[XcountryRider]

Ok guys what are the exact questions we want to ask Maxim firearms about the bolts?

[cory]

Tedward, I'm not saying $75 is unreasonable for a bolt, but there are other factors here.

1 you normally expect a better price when you buy in bulk

2 He wants a large amount of money up front. While this is arguably understandable, we're taking all the risk here with an unknown product. This seems to be an opportunity for Maxim Firearms to get into a market with little to no risk.

In less than 3 days we have 21 barrels spoken for in the Lilja Group buy. That's drastically faster than I originally thought this would happen. (I'm expecting 50 or so to get spoken for and 10% backing out before the order is placed)

I have no doubt a bolt group buy (at the current price) would hit 100, I'd be surprised if that took more than a week. At a price that represented our risk and still made Maxim a profit, a 200 bolt order wouldn't surprise me.

At those numbers I'd imagine he'd be able to purchase all the necessary specialty tools his machine shop needs and still make a good profit on this run.

This is a great opportunity for us to get bolts and for Maxim to get into a new market, making a lot of money in the long run. And for the record I hope Maxim is able to look back 5 years from now and realizes they've made out like a bandit in the Grendel market.

I love free market capitalism and sincerely enjoy seeing hard working companies succeeding and making a good profit. However, that doesn't mean I'm not going to try and negotiate the best deal I can, without sacrificing quality.

[Sputnik]

If I came off short I apologize, I sent that message from a cell phone.

I will say this I'd never expect Bill to send us bolts he had intended to use for fulfilling current orders. I've always assumed if AA was able to help us out it'd be a special order from their supply source.

Don't think anything more about it. Unfortunately I think if AA could coordinate a special order from their supplier, they'd special order it for themselves. Are you going to follow up on Xcountry's request on specific questions for his source? I think there is a lot of interest in the barrel/ bolt combo. I know I would be tempted if I had assurances of quality, to tag on and cancel my upper order. It all may come together with two separate group buys and marrying them up for headspacing.

[Tedward]

Tedward, I'm not saying $75 is unreasonable for a bolt, but there are other factors here.

1 you normally expect a better price when you buy in bulk

2 He wants a large amount of money up front. While this is arguably understandable, we're taking all the risk here with an unknown product. This seems to be an opportunity for Maxim Firearms to get into a market with little to no risk.

In less than 3 days we have 21 barrels spoken for in the Lilja Group buy. That's drastically faster than I originally thought this would happen. (I'm expecting 50 or so to get spoken for and 10% backing out before the order is placed)

I have no doubt a bolt group buy (at the current price) would hit 100, I'd be surprised if that took more than a week. At a price that represented our risk and still made Maxim a profit, a 200 bolt order wouldn't surprise me.

At those numbers I'd imagine he'd be able to purchase all the necessary specialty tools his machine shop needs and still make a good profit on this run.

This is a great opportunity for us to get bolts and for Maxim to get into a new market, making a lot of money in the long run. And for the record I hope Maxim is able to look back 5 years from now and realizes they've made out like a bandit in the Grendel market.

I love free market capitalism and sincerely enjoy seeing hard working companies succeeding and making a good profit. However, that doesn't mean I'm not going to try and negotiate the best deal I can, without sacrificing quality.

We'll just have to see.

As Precision Firearms said, it would cost him $55 before shot peening, heat treat, coating, MPI, and Test Firing and other things he can't do in house so even at $20 ($75 ea.) profit on 200 bolts is only $4,000. He would have to do it in less than a week to make anything. That is why doing 1,000 to 5,000 pieces is what companies do. BUT is someone going to buy that bulk?

[FONT=&quot][SIZE=3]Anyhow, lets see how the cards play out. Maybe someone (firearm companies like TA, AA, LBC or PF.) will decide to have Maxim make a batch, like 1,000 or more so the cost can be absorbed and fill all of their back orders to take the manufacturer out of the distribution equation. [/FONT]
[/SIZE]

[XcountryRider]

I'm on the phone with with the bolt manufacturer looks like we'll be paying 65 bucks a complete bolt.

[XcountryRider]

Ok off the phone. He'll be sending me a email with details of his bolts and manufacturing process and i'll post it when it comes in. We'll be paying 65 bucks per bolt and the forum users will be able to order directly from him. Once we get a list going and we have enough orders i'll PM you all his info and you can make your order. The bolts are guaranteed if you no likey you can return for a full refund. I pretty excited about getting bolts directly from the manufacturer. He did me right with a couple carriers this winter/spring and i'm stocked that we'll have a new Grendel supplier coming online. You can order a complete Grendel BCG as well from him.

[explorecaves]

What would be the cost for the complete BCG?

[cory]

...Are you going to follow up on Xcountry's request on specific questions for his source?...

??? Have I missed a request by Country? (Serious Question)

Anything I can do to make a group buy of quality bolts happen with Maxim Firearms I'll gladly do. And I do hope it happens. I'd love to see this happen. I do think AA would be hard pressed to do this for us.

Maybe Maxim Firearms could do a prototype and send it to AA for Bill to do a Quality Inspection.

My hope is that Bill gets with Maxim Firearms and brings another Grendel Bolt Manufacturer online.

Buster also had a great idea:

...Speaking of bolts, not sure if we have any "supply guys" out there that may have access to FEDLOG and can research CAGE codes of suppliers of bolts for military use....might be an option worth exploring with todays contract dollars being tight as they are....could be a win-win situation for some of the "no-name" manufacturers (and I don't mean that in a derogatory sense).

It seems like a viable possibility to me.

Tedward make a great points, there's more to it than just machining a bolt, with lawyers, etc...

This doesn't need to happen tomorrow we have time, it'll need to happen at an accelerated pace, but not an impossible one. This barrel and bolt group buy just started 2 days ago, Aug 5th. It's picked up steam fast, but I don't intend to place the order as soon as we hit the 25 barrel mark.

As long as it's still holding steam I don't see a reason finalize the buy. That being said I don't intend to wait 12 months to place the order. haha

[cory]

I'm on the phone with with the bolt manufacturer looks like we'll be paying 65 bucks a complete bolt.

That's what I'm talking about Country!

Is that with the ASTM 9310 equivalent surface-refined, case-hardened, peened, and phosphated or the ASTM 9310 equivalent triple-tempered, surface-refined, hardened, and peened with thin, dense chrome plating.

I'm assuming it's the first. Any chance he can do a hard use version?

[XcountryRider]

That's what I'm talking about Country!

Is that with the ASTM 9310 equivalent surface-refined, case-hardened, peened, and phosphated or the ASTM 9310 equivalent triple-tempered, surface-refined, hardened, and peened with thin, dense chrome plating.

I'm assuming it's the first. Any chance he can do a hard use version?

I'll post up his email on details of the bolt when it comes in.

[Sputnik]

??? Have I missed a request by Country? (Serious Question)

Anything I can do to make a group buy of quality bolts happen with Maxim Firearms I'll gladly do. And I do hope it happens. I'd love to see this happen. I do think AA would be hard pressed to do this for us.

Oh, XcountryRider threw out this request: "Ok guys what are the exact questions we want to ask Maxim firearms about the bolts?"

I thought you would be a good source to tap for his questions to Maxim. Since then, he seems to dealing with Maxim on price ($65), order options, including BCG purchases.

[Sputnik]

If this Maxim bolt buy goes individual...how do we marry up those bolts with Lilja group buy barrels?

[cory]

If this Maxim bolt buy goes individual...how do we marry up those bolts with Lilja group buy barrels?

If we're all using a bolt from the same source, same run I don't see any reason why we need to send Dan more than one of them to space them all with.

[XcountryRider]

The shop owner said it was cool to post up his POC info so here it is. Just let him know your from the 6.5 Grendel forum and Craig sent you.

Frank Sabatano
Maxim Firearms
(928) 486-2296
maxim304@gmail.com

[Sputnik]

If we're all using a bolt from the same source, same run I don't see any reason why we need to send Dan more than one of them to space them all with.

I was hoping someone would suggest that, if indeed that is a sound procedure. Then individual orders that may include BCG's can be sent to the individual.

[lilharcher]

You should have the option of sending in your own bolt, or using the default setting, which would be having it spec'd/head-spaced to the group buy bolt....

I will likely send in an AA bolt (extra that I currently have in my possession) for this barrel.

[Sputnik]

For those lucky to have an extra bolt, that is a smart option; although in increases the logistics a bit. Any word on whether Maxim can produce in a timely manner to have a bolt ready for the Lilja? Last I heard 16 weeks was the lead time for the barrels. Any guess on the bolts? Anybody had time to make initial contact with the POC at Maxim?

[LRRPF52]

I talked with Frank today for well over an hour. He's an OEM BCG manufacturer, and has been making AR15 critical parts for a long time for several different companies. He said they made a run of 7.62x39 Bolts a while ago, with a deeper bolt face depth, and a different extractor that were independently tested in high-volume and found to be durable over the long-term.

I was expecting an up-and-coming small shop, but was pleasantly surprised to learn more about their capabilities and industry history. I actually think that the stars are aligning somehow, and that this could be a great source for Grendel bolts.