Minimal equipment required for loading 6.5 Grendel?

[MachV]

The redneck answer
It cost me the price of a box of shells for the dies, 60 factory rounds for the shellplate kit for the Dillon press that cost me 400 factory rounds to reload 400 rounds that cost me .45/bullet, .10/primer and .24/ powder to reload for a total of .79/ round at todays prices. I get a few reloads
Been doing this for years and shoot a few different rounds so the cost is allocated out much better but even the oldlady knows its a spendy hobby????

[LR1955]

H1:

I am banning you for thirty days for ignoring my request that you keep your messages focused on the topic.

LR-55

Ban lifted on Harpoon1 because I did not specifically tell him to stick to the topic of the thread.

LR-55

[LR1955]

If I had to go with minimal equipment, it would be:
Forster Co-ax press
Forster Benchrest dies
Digital scale
Calipers
2 loading trays

With those items you can deprime, resize, prime, powder, and seat bullets accurately. As funds permitted, I would add a case trimmer, electronic powder measure, tumbler, and bullet puller.

There is always a secondary market for quality reloading equipment.

RCJ:

Forgot the powder measure.

I think I would add in a RCBS hand primer. The priming system on the Co Ax seems like it was an afterthought and is difficult to use.

LR-55

[TedBrewer5]

+1 on the hand primer. It gives me a good feel on how primers are seating. Especially on cases with a few loadings on them.

[jasper2408]

If I had to go with minimal equipment, it would be:
Forster Co-ax press
Forster Benchrest dies
Digital scale
Calipers
2 loading trays

Just a heads up, I would actually try one of the Forster Co-AX presses before you buy one. A lot of people like the overhead handle but I do not. That is just my personal preference.

[kmon]

Of the hand held primers out there now this one has been switched to by several from their RCBS hand primers Frankfort Arsenal handheld primer seater.

I have an RCBS one but still use the old Lee hand primer I have used for years and when they changed the design a few years ago I snagged one of the old ones new in box so have it with large primer stem setup and the old one for the small primers .

If you have hand issues and want an easier primer on the hands The RCBS bench primer is a good one.

[Klem]

Glenn,

I would be cautious about the Forster Co-AX if all you want is a minimalist spend. The CO-AX leans towards best quality, with a price tag to match. A single-stage at half the price will load just as good ammo.

If you get into long-term loading you might regret not going top shelf to start with, but minimalist is what you want right now.

[Rivercityjeff]

RCJ:

Forgot the powder measure.

I think I would add in a RCBS hand primer. The priming system on the Co Ax seems like it was an afterthought and is difficult to use.

LR-55

Actually, with today's digital scales you can use an empty brass as a powder trickler to get a precise powder charge. Agreed, the Co-ax priming system is cumbersome. Klem is right, the Co-ax is pricey but, there is always a secondary market for it and the benchrest dies.

FTW, buy the stuff from Brownells or Midway due to their generous return policies. Don't like it? Send it back.

[kmon]

Going minimalist I would look at some of the kits like the Lyman C press, RCBS Partner or a few others. For the price of a Co-Ax you can get the full kit. Grafs and Midsouth have some of those type kits in stock and they use Cast presses unlike the aluminum Lee Challenger presses. Those kits will load good ammo just be a bit slower or not as fancy but functional

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/i...oading-kit

[JASmith]

One can get by with just the scales and a brass case for a trickler -- it works!

BUT one WILL need a funnel.

Agree with Klem that the Forster is not minimalist and that a mid-range single stage will meet the needs. (The Forster can readily be one's second press -- hold off on progressive presses until you are sure the volume of shooting justifies the added expense.)

[AlexisPineda]

Reloading your own ammo is a way to save money and get better performance out of your rifle.

[LR1955]

One can get by with just the scales and a brass case for a trickler -- it works!

BUT one WILL need a funnel.

Agree with Klem that the Forster is not minimalist and that a mid-range single stage will meet the needs. (The Forster can readily be one's second press -- hold off on progressive presses until you are sure the volume of shooting justifies the added expense.)

JS:

Sure it works but after the first fifty rounds the individual will be looking for a powder measure.

LR-55

[JASmith]

JS:

Sure it works but after the first fifty rounds the individual will be looking for a powder measure.

LR-55

All too true --

[Bonas]

JS:

Sure it works but after the first fifty rounds the individual will be looking for a powder measure.

LR-55

So few words that say so much about reloading. Well done!

OP, you originally asked if you could save money and increase the availability of 6.5 Grendel ammo for you by reloading. You can't. Neither ammo nor reloading components are hard to find right now, if you look. Good factory Grendel ammo costs about $1.50 a round. That's true for any good centerfire rifle ammo other than .223. Reloading good Grendel ammo will cost upwards of $1.70 per round just for materials. Brass is just under $1.00 per case, primers are about $.10, powder is at least $.30, and good bullets run about $.38. These prices are current and include shipping and hazmat fees. Reloaders are notorious for omitting or shaving costs here and there or using prices from days gone by to convince themselves they're saving money, so be wary. $.25 per round steel case Grendel ammo days are long gone.

You've had various suggestions here about single stage presses, powder measure work-arounds, hand primers, etc. Those things work, and I started out loading .223 that way. However, it will take you, all told, between three and four minutes per round to load that way. In other words, you'll spend over an hour of your time and $4.00 extra of your money (before you account for reloading equipment) to get a 20 round box of ammo that you can have delivered to your door instead.

Below is a list of steps needed to take a fired brass case to a loaded round. There is some flexibility in the order of performing some of the steps, but this is meant to give you an idea of the time and tools involved.

1. Deprime the case (this uses a press and a die). I deprime before I clean because I clean with liquid, I want the inside of the case clean, and I want to the brass to dry without the spent primer trapping liquid. You can do this without liquid, but you'll need more and more expensive equipment. You can also clean just the outside of the case.
2. Clean the case (there are many equipment options for this.)
3. Dry the case if you used liquid in cleaning. You can use time to dry, if you have enough of it.
4. Deburr the primer pocket, if you want to. I always do, as it avoids problems later. (you need a tool).
5. Swage the case neck, if you want to. I always do, as it avoids problems later. (you need a tool).
6. Lube the case.
7. Reisze the case (This uses a die that must be set up. Depriming and resizing can be one step with one die, if you want it to be).
8. Check the case length (this requires a tool or gauge).
9. Trim the case to length, if necessary (Also requires a tool)
10. Prime the case (more equipment)
11. Measure the powder (more equipment).
12. Charge the case with the powder you just measured (minimal equipment)
13. Seat the bullet (this uses another die that has to be set up).
14. Crimp the case neck, if you want to (this uses another die).
15. Check the loaded case dimensions (this uses a gauge).

The less and simpler equipment you use for these steps, the more time it will take. More (and more expensive) equipment can save time. Space can also be used to save time, if you have it. Maybe you can see why I described my set up as minimalist. I'm probably down to 1-2 minutes per round versus 3-4 with a bare bones set up.

In short, think about why you want to reload. Saving money isn't a good reason, in my opinion. (I don't think it can be done for Grendel, if calculated honestly at today's prices). Increasing accuracy is a good one. Always being able to have ammo on hand is another. Simply liking reloading is another. For me, keeping reloading remotely tolerable in terms of time invested, requires a significant investment beyond single stage presses, and I would never consider reloading for money savings. I reload for accuracy and to have match-grade ammo available during times that match grade ammo can't be found at retail.

[JASmith]

Bonas' cost breakdown assumes the brass is tossed after just one firing.

I have gotten 14 reloads for a single piece of brass - and was full-length resizing for every shot meaning that eah shot stretched the brass a bit. Many of us get more than five. That means a conservative estimate of the amortized brass cost is about 20 cents. That just might drop the per round price to about 90 cents.

With respect to equipment, think in termos of golf clubs and pool tables. How many think of that cost as part of their sport beyond making sure they can pay for it?

[Bonas]

Bonas' cost breakdown assumes the brass is tossed after just one firing.

I have gotten 14 reloads for a single piece of brass - and was full-length resizing for every shot meaning that eah shot stretched the brass a bit. Many of us get more than five. That means a conservative estimate of the amortized brass cost is about 20 cents. That just might drop the per round price to about 90 cents.

With respect to equipment, think in termos of golf clubs and pool tables. How many think of that cost as part of their sport beyond making sure they can pay for it?

If you're going to amortize the brass, you have to amortize the equipment too. Also, it's not realistic to calculate costs by saying this brass I paid an actual dollar for really only costs $.20 because I'm going to fire it at least five times and recover it five times. Many shooters, including I, simply don't have the opportunity to recover all their brass every time they shoot it, assuming they're comfortable reloading bottle necked cases five plus times in the first place. Many others would never get to five reloadings because most shooters are low volume. This is an example of jockeying the math to rationalize reloading as a way to save money. It might work for you, but it's not a solid assumption across the board.

The break-even point for Grendel reloading is thousands of rounds down the road from the first round, as it is for most center fire rifle cartridges. With a $1,500 set up and $.30 amortized brass cost, it's 3,000 rounds to break even. You're also +/-75 hours of time to the break even point. Many reloaders will never get there. .

None of this accounts for the time or cost of load development either. You have to spend considerable time and money just to get to the point of having an accurate load for practical shooting. Nobody ever adds their development costs to their per round costs of their good loads. Also, most reloaders eventually wind up with powders and bullets they don't have much use for. Nobody ever mentions those sunk costs either. Reloading Grendel is great for many things. Saving money isn't one of them currently.

[LR1955]

Guys:

My SWAG based on a decent reloading kit like the Hornady is that initial outlay will be about $650.00 which will include a set of Hornady Grendel dies, a pound of powder, a hundred decent bullets in the 120 grain range, a hundred primers, and a hundred pieces of Lapua brass.

The cost of factory loads ranges from just under two dollars a shot to over three. Two dollars a round is about average I think.

Anyone who doesn't get at least ten shots from a piece of Lapua Grendel brass is either hot loading it badly or is using a set of Lee reloading dies.

The cost to reload a round is about $.10 for the brass, .15 for the primer, .15 for a thirty grain charge of TAC, and $.50 for the bullet. Round it up to one dollar a shot for the handloaded round.

So, a guy ought to have paid off his press and hardware in about 650 rounds fired of decent ammo using decent brass.

For some, 650 rounds of ammo is a gigantic amount and they wouldn't shoot that much in three years.

Competitive shooters will go through 650 rounds of ammo in a week or two and that is being conservative.

Sure, items can be debated and costs of powder, etc but I figure the differences in cost between factory loads and handloads will be in the dollar a shot arena.

LR-55

[Bonas]

Guys:

My SWAG based on a decent reloading kit like the Hornady is that initial outlay will be about $650.00 which will include a set of Hornady Grendel dies, a pound of powder, a hundred decent bullets in the 120 grain range, a hundred primers, and a hundred pieces of Lapua brass.

The cost of factory loads ranges from just under two dollars a shot to over three. Two dollars a round is about average I think.

Anyone who doesn't get at least ten shots from a piece of Lapua Grendel brass is either hot loading it badly or is using a set of Lee reloading dies.

The cost to reload a round is about $.10 for the brass, .15 for the primer, .15 for a thirty grain charge of TAC, and $.50 for the bullet. Round it up to one dollar a shot for the handloaded round.

So, a guy ought to have paid off his press and hardware in about 650 rounds fired of decent ammo using decent brass.

For some, 650 rounds of ammo is a gigantic amount and they wouldn't shoot that much in three years.

Competitive shooters will go through 650 rounds of ammo in a week or two and that is being conservative.

Sure, items can be debated and costs of powder, etc but I figure the differences in cost between factory loads and handloads will be in the dollar a shot arena.

LR-55

A pound of Ramshot Tac at Powder Valley is $65 shipped right now. That's $.28 per round of powder, not $.15. Academy sells Hornady Black ELDM for $1.50 a round. They had plenty sitting on the shelf the last time I was in there. Right now, Lucky Gunner will ship 200 plus rounds of Hornady Black ELDM to you at $2.20 per round, shipping included.

The Hornady Lock and Load Classic kit is $370. Dies are $53. A pound of powder is $70 shipped, assuming TAC works well in OP's barrel with the first kind of bullets he buys. 100 ELDM bullets are $58 shipped. The smallest box of primers will be about $135 shipped. The $100 worth of brass he's buying won't "cost" $.10 per round until after he's loaded all 100 cases 10 times. Then he's going to have to buy them again at $1.00 a round and work his way back down again from there. OP will still need calipers, a case gauge, lube pads and brushes, and some way to clean his cases. And that will give him a set up that's incredibly tedious to load with that he'll wind up either abandoning altogether or replacing most of because it's so slow. I've been there and done that. It's no way to save money.

OP asked about using a minimalist set up to save money and availability of ammo versus components. At least give him accurate information about the core costs. I just don't understand why so many people fudge reloading costs, particularly when giving advice to people considering starting out in it. There are plenty of good reasons to reload without being disingenuous about the costs.

[kmon]

Bass Pro

TAC 37.99 shipped to store for pickup

123gr ELDM 42.99

Winchester #41 SRP 9.99 f04 100 or 99.99 for 1000 Limited stock currently

I could pick up all those at the BP 4 miles from my house. Location dependent of course.

Some Academy have the same or similar in stock at similar prices. Might take a bit but can be found more now than even 6 months ago,

I was at a store last week that had those and other selections on the shelf for about the same prices or within $5 of those. They also had Nosler brass there but do not remember the prices.

I was not looking to buy any for myself just while there glanced. And saw the BP and Academy stuff in the last week.

Depends on the store you hit though.

[TedBrewer5]

Now that we are talking actual costs here is what it would cost me to replicate my basic setup today
Rock Chucker press $169
Shell holder. $9
Powder funnel. $7
Digital caliber. $9
Hornady dies. $53
Digital scale. $40
Debuting/chamfer tool. $18
Lee hand primer. $32
50 hornady brass. $52
100 hornady 123 ELD. $45
1000 CCI 450 primers. $130
1- LB powder. $45

Right at $605
All prices were looked up this morning.
I have other equipment but day in and day out those things listed are all I use.
So for those who are saying it’s not cheap to reload are right. Those first 100 rounds are $6.05 each.
Ammoseek search found 100 rounds of Hornady black 123 ELD for $200($1.56 ea). My experience with those in my rifle was right below 2” group for 5 rounds. Two different bullet weight handloads(120 gr,90 gr) came in at .75”.
My time is irrelevant as I like my hobby and like the process involved. Finding the best possible custom match type load for my rifle-PRiCELESS