School Me on Super Cheap 65G Barrels

[Splatt]

I'll make you case when i get my Grendel, up n runnin.
I have the tap.

[beastep]

Thanks man. As of right now Im just using the sharpie method of finding my lands which Ill admit isnt exactly exact. But I plan on getting the correct equipment when funds allow.

[brockkl]

Hi guys, 1st time post, noob as of yesterday. I read this thread with interest, as it appears that I got one of the BCA BBLs from the back of the shelf, from when they were Moore... I got the stainless M4 from Classic, several months ago, and have been troubleshooting terrible groups ever since. It's back at BCA for the 2nd time as of now. This time there are marks on it so I can tell if they send the same one back. I get 3-4 MOA with handloads, 4 different bullets. 123G SSTs, 129 gr SPs, 90 gr varmint and 100 gr Nosler BT. As well as commercial Horn Black 123s. The Nosler gave me the best groups at about 1.5, but everything else was way worse. I can't even do workups until I can get groups rather than patterns, so I've been loading everything about 1 grain under max as an arbitrary load... Still I should be getting better groups than this, especially with the commercial stuff. Apparently they agree as they have been right on top of honoring their warranty. I have to give them props for service. Early on I found that my muzzle brake was contributing to problems, so that went away, and groups slightly improved. I'm hoping when I get it back my borescope won't show the chatter marks in the bore any more. And it might even show groups. Otherwise I;ll be putting the 5.56 barrel back on and waiting till I can afford a better 6.5G.

[Kswhitetails]

Welcome to the board bro!

Sounds like you have your own situation well in hand. It will be interesting if you can't see significant changes this time around. Keep us posted. You might consider posting about your warranty experience in other threads where folks are asking about BCA's reputation.

Just because we buy a cheap barrel, and on sale, doesn't mean we can't expect acceptable results. Glad they seem to be taking care of you.

[Sean Boburk]

Hi guys, 1st time post, noob as of yesterday. I read this thread with interest, as it appears that I got one of the BCA BBLs from the back of the shelf, from when they were Moore... I got the stainless M4 from Classic, several months ago, and have been troubleshooting terrible groups ever since. It's back at BCA for the 2nd time as of now. This time there are marks on it so I can tell if they send the same one back. I get 3-4 MOA with handloads, 4 different bullets. 123G SSTs, 129 gr SPs, 90 gr varmint and 100 gr Nosler BT. As well as commercial Horn Black 123s. The Nosler gave me the best groups at about 1.5, but everything else was way worse. I can't even do workups until I can get groups rather than patterns, so I've been loading everything about 1 grain under max as an arbitrary load... Still I should be getting better groups than this, especially with the commercial stuff. Apparently they agree as they have been right on top of honoring their warranty. I have to give them props for service. Early on I found that my muzzle brake was contributing to problems, so that went away, and groups slightly improved. I'm hoping when I get it back my borescope won't show the chatter marks in the bore any more. And it might even show groups. Otherwise I;ll be putting the 5.56 barrel back on and waiting till I can afford a better 6.5G.

Just loading 1 grn under max seems somewhat arbitrary. Have you tried a ladder test? That is normally how I start off when working up a load with a new bullet or powder.

I am not contradicting your "bad barrel" conclusion. My BCA shoots well with black and ok with SST (both sub MOA). If you are getting 3-4 inch groups with black, I agree, there is a problem. I am just wondering about your approach to hand-loading.

Sean

[brockkl]

Just loading 1 grn under max seems somewhat arbitrary. Have you tried a ladder test? That is normally how I start off when working up a load with a new bullet or powder.

I am not contradicting your "bad barrel" conclusion. My BCA shoots well with black and ok with SST (both sub MOA). If you are getting 3-4 inch groups with black, I agree, there is a problem. I am just wondering about your approach to hand-loading.

Sean

While I agree that this isn't an optimal workup, I find that a ladder test would be pretty much a waste of ammo if your bullets are impacting all over the target. I actually thought I was getting somewhere when I got improvement with the Nosler bullets, but BCA agreed that the barrel shouldn't be that finicky, and they were also out of spec. And the fact that commercial ammo was doing the same thing kinda puts the lie to my loads being the issue. If I could get them all inside the 9-ring it might be worth a shot... But I have to start somewhere. I explained everything I have done to BCA, and they were pretty quick to take it back (twice). That pretty much tells me they are expecting issues. I fix computers for a living, and even though I have been doing that since the 90's, vendors still want me to jump through all kinds of troubleshooting hoops. Do barrel makers not do this as a matter of course? Actually, I was kind of surprised they even would talk to me when I mentioned handloads... But if I had to troubleshoot with commercial ammo, I couldn't afford it.

Also, guys, I asked them if they test fire the barrels before they go out, and they said they do. I didn't ask if they shot groups or just one test fire, but I think I will ask them to send the target back with the BBL. Does anyone know the answer to this?
Thanks for the input folks.

[bj139]

brockkl,
My first 16" BCA barrel didn't shoot well. I fired a lot of Wolf steel ammo and it seemed to improve.
With handloads that were partially sized, I finally shot a .905MOA five shot group.
I then noticed the brass had two circumferential stripes near the shoulder. I reported on this in a thread, "My Striped Grendel".
I contacted BCA and they had me send it back. So far, I have not been able to get the replacement to shoot as well. Shoot.

[Sean Boburk]

Were these barrels 5R or standard rifling? My understanding (which may be wrong) is that 5R requires less break-in. I don't think my 18" is 5R, and it shoots well after a couple boxes of fooling around (sighting in, then shooting for groups)...so who knows. I have a 20" 5R BCA on the way.

Sean

EDIT: This is the one I got from $59.50 during the black Friday/cyber Monday sales...that shoots well. https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/catalog...818%28M%29

[bj139]

Sean,
https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/barrels/b6-5cm41618-ss
I thought it was a 5R. I got it out to find out. It is 6R. I think I see chatter marks.
When I received it I shot Wolf steel ammo and put K2 bore polish on the bullets.
I don't know if it helped or not.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]10917[/ATTACH]

[brockkl]

Funny I thought the 5R cost more but not so much. They are a different order than standard rifling though. Mine (both of them) had considerable chatter marks. I'm really not sure they were even different barrels. But this time I noticed that there were dimples where I tightened down the gas block screws. Hopefully they won't polish them out and send it back.

[jonny rotton]

where can i find an inexpensive 10" or so barrel????

[sscandyman]

I have not been able to find a cheap short barrel option ( wanting to build a fun little pistol to plink wolf steel ) .I contacted Bear Creek last week asking if they had any plans to make a 10.5"-12.5" Grendel barrel and this was the response I got :

"Hello,

I have been ask this several times. I will send this up the chain and see what we can do about getting this in production. I will flag your email and as soon as I hear I will let you know.

If you need further assistance feel free to contact me directly.


Frank "

so I'm holding out hope =P

[GrumpyBiker]

Just about ready to see which category my 20" BCA barrel & BCG fit into.
Finished up the initial build and am anxious for the weather to break & hold long enough to get out !

[41bear]

Updating my original Anderson barrel (believe this to be a BCA) with 5R rifling. Reported that, with make shift measurements, I thought that my barrel was a very short throat. After an investment into a Hornady OAL/Comparator gauge I find that the throat is actually .03 longer than my 16" Faxon barrel, The problem lies in the chamber, it is very rough and tight so I plan on getting the following tool to polish the chamber and see if that will solve my problem.

http://www.brushresearch.com/brushes.php?c2=183

The funny, odd, thing is that the Wolf Steel case ammo slides in and out of the chamber like melted butter. ???

[Sticks]

...
The funny, odd, thing is that the Wolf Steel case ammo slides in and out of the chamber like melted butter. ???

Wolf has an undersized bullet. .263. One reason it does not shoot as accurate as we would like.

[Jmccracken]

I just received mine from Classic last Saturday, FWLIW it looks really really nice. 18" straight fluted, nitrided 4150. Only blemish is a scratch where it looks like it got caught by a boxcutter when someone opened the case (the protective netting was cut too) I have been meaning to post pics but I have been too busy.

From my research at least Classic, AR Stoner and Sander's Armory are all made by BCA.

BCA and Classic had the best prices so I asked them both basic specs (material, bolt face etc...) BCA never responded but Classic got right back to me. I didn't like that... if you can't answer a simple question how are you going to deal with a problem?

Stoner MLGS has .094 gas port, some say that is too big!! Classic Arms barrels all have .070 gas ports! Am currently working on a Stoner MLGS .094 GP and it is over gassed!!

Not sure if you know, im assuming you do. The barrels classic ships, are BCA barrels.

[brockkl]

Well, that didn't take long at all. I just got an email from UPS that my "repaired/replaced" barrel will arrive tomorrow. We'll see what happens.

[brockkl]

Well, that didn't take long at all. I just got an email from UPS that my "repaired/replaced" barrel will arrive tomorrow. We'll see what happens.

And I can tell it's new. They changed the roll stamp field. On the older barrels there was no flat shelf for the roll-mark. It was rolled right into the curved barrel. Now there is
Anyway I broke out the trusty $6 Chinese endoscope and promptly found 2 things.
1. There is almost a mirror finish in the grooves, and the lands are nice and sharp.
2. There's a burr on the gas port. It's really small, but it REALLY lights up in the scope's headlights. You can't feel it with a cleaning rod, but you can see it. [ATTACH=CONFIG]10986[/ATTACH]
If you move the scope around and fiddle with the light you can get a better idea what your looking at.
I might be able to snag and rip it out with a brush. I sent this to BCA and asked if I could try to snag it with a tornado brush, IF NEEDED. They might even tell me to send it back.
Anyway our surgery department manager told me to bring it to work tomorrow and we'll hang a good endoscope on it to get a better idea whats what.
Oops, time to go home. I'll play with it tonight and see what happens.

[LRRPF52]

Use a brass brush to knock out the burr. This is very common with AR15 barrels, even from the best barrel makers.

It will wreck accuracy if you shoot it out and tear off the downside of the gas port into the rifling.

[brockkl]

Use a brass brush to knock out the burr. This is very common with AR15 barrels, even from the best barrel makers.

It will wreck accuracy if you shoot it out and tear off the downside of the gas port into the rifling.

Thanks for the heads up LRRPF52. I'm sitting here at work with my bore snake and 1 piece cleaning rod, THEY are unable to knock it out. Maybe I can find a correct brush after work. Seems to me that as far as it LOOKS like it's sticking out into the bore, that I would be able to feel it. But apparently, it's below the lands, maybe even just a small "trench" where the hole is. Still waiting to hear from the Endo department to use the bronchoscope to see exactly what it is. If it's just a trench I'll forget about it, as long as the barrel provides groups and not patterns.
thanks again