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mateba Wrote:That's an awesome group! To bad they are not all like that. The brownell's barrel is a mid-length gas system. I looked for a 18" rifle length barrel but... I plan on using an adjustable gas block so I'm not worried about it. It would be nice to have the gas block closer to the muzzle for the reason of adjusting it under the handguard but I am not worried about its function. A mid-gas barrel should offer a healthy gas system to start backing down from. Are you using an adjustable gas block?
I'm using an SLR Sentry 7 clamp on at the first click that will reliably cycle. But the longer gas system helps with accuracy in addition to recoil mitigation. John Paul (i.e. JP) told me they had found this to be the case and are doing extended rifle length systems on their 22" 260 and 6.5 Creedmoor barrels. Think of both the change in gas flow as the bullet passes the gas port and what might happen if the gas gets to the gas key while the bullet is still in the barrel. There are some Intermediate length 18"s out there which fall between rifle and mid length - I've looked at them but unfortunately I'm stuck with mid length since I have a monolithic upper and my gas block already sits in front of the handguard
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Sorry to derail the topic, Stonehenge what's wrong with a rifle length gas on your upper if the gas length you have now already puts the gas block past the end of the handguard?
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StoneHendge Wrote:I'm using an SLR Sentry 7 clamp on at the first click that will reliably cycle. But the longer gas system helps with accuracy in addition to recoil mitigation. John Paul (i.e. JP) told me they had found this to be the case and are doing extended rifle length systems on their 22" 260 and 6.5 Creedmoor barrels. Think of both the change in gas flow as the bullet passes the gas port and what might happen if the gas gets to the gas key while the bullet is still in the barrel. There are some Intermediate length 18"s out there which fall between rifle and mid length - I've looked at them but unfortunately I'm stuck with mid length since I have a monolithic upper and my gas block already sits in front of the handguard
That is a good point. Especially since I'm chasing a little velocity bump. As soon as the bullet passes the gas port the path of least resistance is at 9" down the barrel versus 12" on a rifle length gas system. I would be better off having to open up a rifle length gas port than use a mid length, assuming all other things are equal. How do you like your Syrac? I wonder who else will back a barrel like Brownell's? I'm willing to bet AA will. Anyone else come to mind?
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mateba Wrote:That is a good point. Especially since I'm chasing a little velocity bump. As soon as the bullet passes the gas port the path of least resistance is at 9" down the barrel versus 12" on a rifle length gas system. I would be better off having to open up a rifle length gas port than use a mid length, assuming all other things are equal. How do you like your Syrac? I wonder who else will back a barrel like Brownell's? I'm willing to bet AA will. Anyone else come to mind?
The tunable gas block that came with my Odin 22 Nosler barrel fit a little loose and it was around 0.002" out of spec and the rifle wasn't cycling properly due to leakage. I sent them a video of me moving it around on the barrel on a Sunday, called them on Monday morning and had a return label in my inbox and a tracking number for my replacement clamp on adjustable (which I paid around $60 for to upgrade) in a couple of hours. The only other company in the industry that has rectified a problem that fast for me was Geissele - who I'm sure was very motivated to get a trigger that randomly double tapped out of the public domain as quickly as possible! (Unfortunately, the double tap was completely random - otherwise it would be in my safe to make rare guest appearances deep off the grid) Odin does an MOA guarantee but I have no idea what it would take to call them on it.
The Syrac block is fine - does what it is supposed to do. I find installing and messing with gas blocks to be about as much fun as trimming brass, so it's hard for me to get terribly excited.
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LOL, too bad it was random. A lot of people like their Syrac adjustable gas block.
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A5BLASTER Wrote:Sorry to derail the topic, Stonehenge what's wrong with a rifle length gas on your upper if the gas length you have now already puts the gas block past the end of the handguard?
The gas block sits in front of the handguard M-16 style so the gas tube is fully protected. Any farther and the gas tube would be exposed.
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Klem Wrote:Does Satern sell barrels via Brownells?
Your listed muzzle device is a flash hider and weighs 3.7oz. You mention wanting to save an ounce in your handguard so why not just screw on a thread protector and save yourself $100? They are button-rifled Liberty barrels, which is the button brand associated with Satern, not Steve's cut-rifled pipes that you wait for.
Some Brownell's/Liberty pipes have been good, others not so much. Some of the most accurate 6.5 Grendels I have ever shot were built with Satern cut-rifled barrels, chambered by AA back in the day.
The one I Cerakoted with a Snakeskin pattern was recently featured when a guy let his wife use it for some long range event. She had no LR experience behind a rifle to my knowledge.
She shot a 4.5" 5rd group at 950yds with the rifle, using Hornady 123gr ELD-M I think. Guys who have been shooting LR for decades were packing up their rifles and not wanting to shoot after that.
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LRRPF52 Wrote:They are button-rifled Liberty barrels, which is the button brand associated with Satern, not Steve's cut-rifled pipes that you wait for.
Some Brownell's/Liberty pipes have been good, others not so much. Some of the most accurate 6.5 Grendels I have ever shot were built with Satern cut-rifled barrels, chambered by AA back in the day.
The one I Cerakoted with a Snakeskin pattern was recently featured when a guy let his wife use it for some long range event. She had no LR experience behind a rifle to my knowledge.
She shot a 4.5" 5rd group at 950yds with the rifle, using Hornady 123gr ELD-M I think. Guys who have been shooting LR for decades were packing up their rifles and not wanting to shoot after that.
Oh man that's funny... and humiliating...
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04-25-2017, 06:02 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-25-2017, 06:09 PM by Chrazy-Chris.)
Looks like you're trying to save weight. I recently swapped out my flash hider with a thread protector on my 20" fluted Grendel which I use for the same purpose as you (hunting and target shooting) and although it only saved me a few ounces, it is a very noticeable few ounces. I find that the Grendel is such a mild round, a muzzle device doesn't really do much for it in terms of brakes or flash hiders. Shortening the overall length also made it feel much more maneuverable (not to mention it fits the looks of my hunting-themed build).
While I was at it, I went ahead and ordered an Aero ultralight mount to swap out my ADM mount. I'm thinking this will also help the rifle feel more "streamlined" (less snaggy) and of course lighter. The Aero is a much cheaper option as well. Initially I ordered Aero's SPR but didn't end up needing all that eye relief with my setup so I swapped it our for Aero's standard mount which, by design, looks like it'll be a bit more solid despite its light weight. I learned that the weight of components such as scope mounts and muzzle devices really add up. Hope my lessons-learned help!
EDIT - I just went back and re-read your parts list. I'd take a second look at whether you need the SPR or the Standard Aero mount. As I mentioned above I didn't need all that extra eye relief that the SPR mount gives so I went with a sturdier-looking design (and likely a hair lighter) in their standard mount. This was with a Vortex Viper 4-16x so I'll bet you'll be fine with the standard mount using your Vortex 10x. I also see you plan on buying flip-up sights... why? You aren't going to be able to remove your scope without the use of tools. Might as well save yourself some money and some weight and skip the BUIS.
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Mateba,
So I bought a Wilson barrel from JSE in Nov 16 and now I'm just not sure which bolt it's supposed to take. Do you have any info on when they made the switch? I contacted JSE and they said it takes .125 but I'm just not sure whether they're taking into account that I purchased the barrel 5 months ago and things may have changed. I can't find any contact info for Wilson. Any help you can provide would be MUCH appreciated!
mateba Wrote:This is also a recent change with JSE's wilson arms barrel. They were sami-6.5 type II barrels now they are something else. They still sell 18-24" HBAR & BBAR SS or QPQ 416r barrels for roughly $200, but with the .125 head spacing.
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Chrazy-Chris Wrote:Looks like you're trying to save weight. I recently swapped out my flash hider with a thread protector on my 20" fluted Grendel which I use for the same purpose as you (hunting and target shooting) and although it only saved me a few ounces, it is a very noticeable few ounces. I find that the Grendel is such a mild round, a muzzle device doesn't really do much for it in terms of brakes or flash hiders. Shortening the overall length also made it feel much more maneuverable (not to mention it fits the looks of my hunting-themed build).
While I was at it, I went ahead and ordered an Aero ultralight mount to swap out my ADM mount. I'm thinking this will also help the rifle feel more "streamlined" (less snaggy) and of course lighter. The Aero is a much cheaper option as well. Initially I ordered Aero's SPR but didn't end up needing all that eye relief with my setup so I swapped it our for Aero's standard mount which, by design, looks like it'll be a bit more solid despite its light weight. I learned that the weight of components such as scope mounts and muzzle devices really add up. Hope my lessons-learned help!
EDIT - I just went back and re-read your parts list. I'd take a second look at whether you need the SPR or the Standard Aero mount. As I mentioned above I didn't need all that extra eye relief that the SPR mount gives so I went with a sturdier-looking design (and likely a hair lighter) in their standard mount. This was with a Vortex Viper 4-16x so I'll bet you'll be fine with the standard mount using your Vortex 10x. I also see you plan on buying flip-up sights... why? You aren't going to be able to remove your scope without the use of tools. Might as well save yourself some money and some weight and skip the BUIS.
Yes, I am concerned with weight. My build is about half complete and weighing 71oz. I think it will weight be close to 144oz, ~9lbs, finished with scope and a loaded 24 round magazine. Basically, 9 lbs while in use. But we will see, each part has actually weighted less then their advertised amount. It might finish at 8-3/4#. The BUIS are only a couple of ounces and where very inexpensive. I'm not sure if I trust them. I don't have them yet. I may leave them off. One of the nice things about a scope is its redundancy. It doesn't matter nearly as much if the battery dies. But I do want to have irons laying around. I like rifles to come with sights. That's a pet peeve of mine, so I indulged myself. I've been curious about the SPR mount. I think it will sturdy but I wondered the same thing. I take another look, thanks.
Chrazy-Chris Wrote:Mateba,
So I bought a Wilson barrel from JSE in Nov 16 and now I'm just not sure which bolt it's supposed to take. Do you have any info on when they made the switch? I contacted JSE and they said it takes .125 but I'm just not sure whether they're taking into account that I purchased the barrel 5 months ago and things may have changed. I can't find any contact info for Wilson. Any help you can provide would be MUCH appreciated!
You should verify your head spacing with a gauge to be sure. But, if I had to bet, you probably have a .136 type II barrel. I had been keeping an eye on them for a while and was really disappointed with their recent decision. Trying to contacting Wilson Arms is about as fun has trying to contact Satern. I think JSE moved locations and they decided to make the change after they got settled. You might check you order history on their website to see if their is any info on the product you bought. Please review your barrel when you get a chance.
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Chrazy-Chris Wrote:Mateba,
So I bought a Wilson barrel from JSE in Nov 16 and now I'm just not sure which bolt it's supposed to take. Do you have any info on when they made the switch? I contacted JSE and they said it takes .125 but I'm just not sure whether they're taking into account that I purchased the barrel 5 months ago and things may have changed. I can't find any contact info for Wilson. Any help you can provide would be MUCH appreciated!
Chris here is a link to the Wilson Arms contact page. Wilson Arms sell a lot of very accurate barrels to several rifle companies and many times the actual barrel supplier is not identified. Wilson will manufacture barrels to their customers specification but generally only produce barrels in large quantities to manufactures or retailers.
http://wilsonarms.com/contact-us/
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Mateba - just saw your scope / mount combo. Below is my 22 Nosler with the Aero extended mount and a Vortex Viper HS LR 2.5-10x32 set in the most forward position possible. I get my head farther forward with the ARFX than you probably will with a carbine stock. My iPad isn't cooperating, but you can see what an Aero SPR with a Bushnell XRS 4.5-30x50 looks like on my Stealth Grey Precision build thread. Puts the eyebox of a much bigger scope in the same position.
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StoneHendge Wrote:Mateba - just saw your scope / mount combo. Below is my 22 Nosler with the Aero extended mount and a Vortex Viper HS LR 2.5-10x32 set in the most forward position possible. I get my head farther forward with the ARFX than you probably will with a carbine stock. My iPad isn't cooperating, but you can see what an Aero SPR with a Bushnell XRS 4.5-30x50 looks like on my Stealth Grey Precision build thread. Puts the eyebox of a much bigger scope in the same position.
That's a great photo. Would you prefer scope/mount further forward if there was room?
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I have the aero extended mount with a diamondback hp 4-16 on mine and I have the mount set as far forward as possible and it puts the eye box perfect with my moe fixed rifle stock.
I can get a pic of it if you would like.
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mateba Wrote:That's a great photo. Would you prefer scope/mount further forward if there was room?
It's fine where it is. I have to back off a tad when I settle in, but the stock is a tad shorter than and adjustable setup. The scope also has a relatively forgiving eyebox
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A5BLASTER Wrote:I have the aero extended mount with a diamondback hp 4-16 on mine and I have the mount set as far forward as possible and it puts the eye box perfect with my moe fixed rifle stock.
I can get a pic of it if you would like.
If you it isn't any trouble. But, if you can't I'll be fine. Thank you for the offer and thank you for the input. Whats the LOP on your moe fixie?
StoneHendge Wrote:It's fine where it is. I have to back off a tad when I settle in, but the stock is a tad shorter than and adjustable setup. The scope also has a relatively forgiving eyebox
Thank you for sharing, it really helps.
Been thinking about what Klem and Chrazy-Chris said about muzzle devices. I found a MI .30 call flash-comp for $50 but I haven't found any info on it yet. https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/...e=&from=fn It's at least cheaper even though it might not weight any less. I did also see some titanium birdcage FH on DSA arms' website for $30 but they are in 1/2-28 and would need to be drilled and tapped. Which, I can't do myself. too bad. Most of the other options I came across did not seem all that inspiring. Like, V7 Ti birdcage for $100. And, most thread protectors at $20-30. So, I'm thinking about my muzzle device choice if any of you have had some fantastic experiences with a product that's <3.7oz and <$110, I'm all ears. thanks
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mateba Wrote:If you it isn't any trouble. But, if you can't I'll be fine. Thank you for the offer and thank you for the input. Whats the LOP on your moe fixie?
Thank you for sharing, it really helps.
Been thinking about what Klem and Chrazy-Chris said about muzzle devices. I found a MI .30 call flash-comp for $50 but I haven't found any info on it yet. https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/...e=&from=fn It's at least cheaper even though it might not weight any less. I did also see some titanium birdcage FH on DSA arms' website for $30 but they are in 1/2-28 and would need to be drilled and tapped. Which, I can't do myself. too bad. Most of the other options I came across did not seem all that inspiring. Like, V7 Ti birdcage for $100. And, most thread protectors at $20-30. So, I'm thinking about my muzzle device choice if any of you have had some fantastic experiences with a product that's <3.7oz and <$110, I'm all ears. thanks
My recommendation, if you choose to go the thread protector route (I'm happy I did)- is to wait until you get the barrel in so you can measure the width and length of thread protector that will fit your barrel best. My barrel had especially long threads so I was happy I had it in front of me to measure off of and order one that would cover all the threads as well as match the width of that portion of my barrel. I went with this one for $10 bucks: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FYB...UTF8&psc=1.
There are a lot on Amazon of all sizes, thread patterns, and styles. I just searched 5/8-24 thread protector.
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The length of the moe fixed rifle stock is just a hair shorter then a A2 stock, but it can use the prs buttpads so you can change them out an go a lil shorter are longer lop by changing the buttpad.
I will post you a pic of the mount and scope first thing tommorw morning just got out the woods.
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04-27-2017, 07:48 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-27-2017, 07:53 PM by mateba.)
Thanks for the suggestions on thread protectors. I saw this on ARP. http://ar15performance.com/inc/sdetail/2121/22504 Is there a general opinion on this guy's reputation?
I got my BUIS in last night. https://www.ozarkarmament.com/collection...-for-ar-15 The button push is a little tight on them but that might ease up. Other than that they weight 3.7oz together, have a nice finish, are adjustable for windage and elevation and cost me $24 shipped from ozark's website. Ozark says these are milled from aluminum but not which type. These weight as much as other sights that I would trust more at face value like, aero precision. These are just too cheap to express any criticism at this point. If they fall off on their own or can't hold zero I'll say otherwise.
Are peel washer shims better than standard shims or is there an appropriate time to use one or the other? For barrel nuts? For muzzle devices?
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