Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge
#35
Tony Williams Wrote:Rumours are flying around concerning the US "trade study" of different small-arms calibres mentioned by General Brogan in my hearing at the NDIA in Dallas last May. The US Army's ARDEC has completed this, comparing the 5.56mm and 7.62mm rounds with 6.5mm and 7mm over a wide range of criteria, assuming the use of similar lead-free bullets. The conclusion is that both the 6.5mm and 7mm were much better overall than either the 5.56mm or the 7.62mm. The report has yet to be released, but the rumours seem pretty definite.

This should come as no surprise; the abstract of Ehrhart's 2009 study (Increasing small arms lethality in Afghanistan: Taking back the infantry half-kilometer) contains this:
"The 2006 study by the Joint Service Wound Ballistics – Integrated Product Team discovered that the ideal caliber seems to be between 6.5 and 7-mm. This was also the general conclusion of all military ballistics studies since the end of World War I."

How many more studies will it take, I wonder, before the US and/or NATO actually does something about this?

Tony:

Earhart didn't produce a study. He produced an opinion paper. It is amazing how many things he left out that he should have included and that countered many of his opinions. I won't argue with his comment about wound ballistics but I would with his prejudice in favor of the Grendel.

He, like many others continue to compare the match grade, 123 Lapua load with issued Service Ball in terms of exterior ability. He shouldn't have done so or should have detailed the potential of a match grade cartridge to that of service ball. Sorry but he did not study anything, just stated an opinion without all the facts.

Note he talked about the old M-1 30-06 ball in favorable terms but didn't state why it fell into disuse. Not only the increase in recoil but it outshot SDZs and that was in the 1930's. What ever DoD decides to do, I hope they can also produce land to increase surface danger zones on ranges. Many ranges today are based on the 5.56 ball SDZ and if you go to something that increases maximum range, you will render many current ranges as being unusable.

There were other details that were left out of his paper and should have been included. I wouldn't cite his paper as a study at all. An opinion, yes. A study, no.

LR55
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Messages In This Thread
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-07-2011, 11:19 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by RedFalconBill - 03-09-2011, 12:31 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-09-2011, 04:13 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by RedFalconBill - 03-10-2011, 05:04 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-10-2011, 05:42 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by RedFalconBill - 03-11-2011, 04:19 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-11-2011, 06:24 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by RedFalconBill - 03-12-2011, 02:27 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-12-2011, 03:02 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-12-2011, 03:48 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-12-2011, 03:28 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by warped - 03-12-2011, 06:05 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-12-2011, 07:02 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by longdayjake - 03-12-2011, 07:53 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-12-2011, 08:41 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by warped - 03-12-2011, 10:59 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by RedFalconBill - 03-14-2011, 03:21 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-14-2011, 04:13 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by RedFalconBill - 03-14-2011, 02:41 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-15-2011, 08:52 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by warped - 03-16-2011, 03:47 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 03-17-2011, 01:53 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 03-17-2011, 03:25 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 03-17-2011, 02:38 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by RedFalconBill - 03-18-2011, 05:16 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 03-22-2011, 08:30 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-22-2011, 01:11 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 03-24-2011, 02:54 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LR1955 - 03-25-2011, 12:03 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 04-27-2011, 07:19 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 04-29-2011, 01:00 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 04-29-2011, 07:33 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 04-29-2011, 07:36 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 05-25-2011, 06:18 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 05-29-2011, 07:09 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 05-29-2011, 02:21 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 05-29-2011, 06:02 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 05-31-2011, 07:31 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 05-31-2011, 08:33 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 05-31-2011, 09:35 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 05-31-2011, 11:25 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 06-01-2011, 12:15 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 06-01-2011, 04:36 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 07-12-2011, 09:38 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 07-12-2011, 01:41 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 07-12-2011, 06:17 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 07-13-2011, 07:04 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 07-17-2011, 11:05 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 07-17-2011, 11:21 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 07-17-2011, 01:35 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 07-17-2011, 04:47 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by patdaly - 07-20-2011, 02:30 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 07-20-2011, 07:55 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by warped - 07-20-2011, 08:07 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 07-20-2011, 09:46 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by warped - 07-21-2011, 02:44 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 07-29-2011, 01:59 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 07-30-2011, 12:10 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Jaywalker - 08-22-2011, 02:56 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 08-22-2011, 06:24 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Jaywalker - 08-22-2011, 01:34 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 08-22-2011, 03:29 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 08-24-2011, 02:15 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 08-24-2011, 02:36 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 08-24-2011, 03:52 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Jaywalker - 08-27-2011, 12:22 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 08-27-2011, 12:52 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Jaywalker - 08-27-2011, 01:08 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 08-27-2011, 02:31 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 08-27-2011, 02:45 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 08-27-2011, 02:58 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 08-27-2011, 03:43 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 08-27-2011, 04:59 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Jaywalker - 08-27-2011, 06:30 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 08-27-2011, 07:10 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 08-27-2011, 08:07 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by warped - 08-27-2011, 11:46 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 08-28-2011, 12:36 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 08-28-2011, 12:41 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 08-28-2011, 02:32 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 08-28-2011, 02:51 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Jaywalker - 08-29-2011, 01:27 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 08-29-2011, 02:16 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 10-19-2011, 02:56 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 10-19-2011, 01:42 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 10-19-2011, 05:34 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 10-19-2011, 07:24 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-20-2011, 09:05 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-20-2011, 10:12 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-20-2011, 10:42 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-20-2011, 11:25 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-21-2011, 11:08 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-27-2011, 03:55 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-27-2011, 08:27 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-30-2011, 05:05 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-30-2011, 04:14 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 11-30-2011, 11:25 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-01-2011, 06:19 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-01-2011, 08:48 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-01-2011, 09:29 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-01-2011, 09:37 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by appleseed-kdc - 12-01-2011, 01:56 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-01-2011, 02:03 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-01-2011, 05:24 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-01-2011, 07:47 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-01-2011, 08:01 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-02-2011, 09:51 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-02-2011, 11:46 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-03-2011, 05:23 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-03-2011, 09:00 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-03-2011, 09:11 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 12-03-2011, 03:44 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-03-2011, 04:05 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-03-2011, 04:37 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 12-03-2011, 04:46 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 12-03-2011, 05:04 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-03-2011, 07:34 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 12-03-2011, 08:53 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-04-2011, 02:43 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 12-04-2011, 03:30 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-04-2011, 05:44 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-04-2011, 10:17 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 12-04-2011, 02:23 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-04-2011, 07:53 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 12-13-2011, 04:18 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-14-2011, 05:26 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 11-19-2013, 05:21 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-19-2013, 05:57 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by woohoo - 11-19-2013, 08:11 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 11-19-2013, 11:01 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 11-20-2013, 03:00 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by woohoo - 11-25-2013, 05:04 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 11-27-2013, 07:07 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by woohoo - 11-27-2013, 07:19 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by woohoo - 11-28-2013, 01:24 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-28-2013, 04:29 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-28-2013, 04:48 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-29-2013, 07:26 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by woohoo - 11-29-2013, 08:10 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-29-2013, 08:26 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-29-2013, 10:33 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by woohoo - 11-29-2013, 10:51 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-30-2013, 12:26 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 12-01-2013, 07:16 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-02-2013, 01:15 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by woohoo - 12-02-2013, 02:25 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-02-2013, 02:54 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 12-02-2013, 03:42 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-02-2013, 04:34 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by woohoo - 12-02-2013, 05:24 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-03-2013, 05:21 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-03-2013, 05:55 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 01-17-2014, 09:49 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 01-17-2014, 09:57 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 01-17-2014, 11:02 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 01-18-2014, 02:00 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 01-18-2014, 03:30 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 01-18-2014, 02:46 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 01-18-2014, 03:42 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 01-19-2014, 07:55 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 01-20-2014, 01:35 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 01-20-2014, 03:07 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 01-20-2014, 03:44 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 01-20-2014, 03:23 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 01-20-2014, 09:53 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by woohoo - 01-21-2014, 02:37 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 01-21-2014, 04:33 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 03-27-2014, 09:48 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 03-28-2014, 01:58 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by nincomp - 03-28-2014, 06:09 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by explorecaves - 07-01-2014, 01:15 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by explorecaves - 07-01-2014, 02:14 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by nincomp - 07-01-2014, 03:22 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 08-07-2014, 02:09 PM

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